[estel]

Isn't there an extent to which forced deprecation of software like Flash might hasten the uptake of newer technologies like HTML5?

Fortunately iOS already did most of this on its own. But reduced support can always encourage more websites to move to HTML5.

[hahaiamatwork]

I agree, but as another poster said, the technology simply isn't there.

I haven't tested an iPhone 4S yet, but I did develop some javascript canvas based animations for some time, and the performance was extremely poor. The old benchmark I used was http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/ I believe, and I have yet to see HTML outperform flash on it.

[cmf028]

Hardware acceleration for Canvas and SVG makes a huge difference in this case.

Firefox 4+ (Windows Vista/7), IE9+ (Windows Vista/7), Chrome(I forget which version)+ (All Windows, Mac Soon), and Safari 5+ (OSX) all support hardware acceleration of Canvas.

Opera development builds support hardware acceleration too.

Chrome Beta on Android supports hardware acceleration of Canvas. iPhone 4S also supports hardware acceleration of Canvas.

Hardware accelerated Canvas completely destroys Flash on the Desktop.

A lot has changed in `~2 years

Not to mention that modern JS engines outperform even statically typed AS3 code.

Of course, if you don't have a supported graphics card for your computer, you won't get hardware acceleration.

However, I imagine this won't be a problem on Mobile once Android 4.0 eclipses other versions of Android since Hardware acceleration is a standard Android 4.0 feature.

[estel]

I agree too (though I can't remember the last time I myself had to use Flash on my phone); but it doesn't feel like an entirely unreasonable argument for not supporting Flash.

[SquareWheel]

As much as I'd like to see HTML5 pushed for interactive content, it's not there yet. I can tell whenever Youtube gives me the HTML player because everything breaks. Apple's webplayer is even worse. I think the only good experience I've had with an HTML5 video player is on The Verge, and half the comments complain about it so it probably just works well on Chrome.

I think Flash still has a place in the current web, while we work on getting HTML up to snuff.

[recursive]

Funny you should mention it. While we're talking anecdotes, youtube's flash player is more likely to crash my browser than the html one.

[huggyface]

Fortunately iOS already did most of this on its own.

By pushing everyone to apps? iOS is no shepherd in the movement to standardized, cross-platform solutions. It is probably the greatest setback the open web has faced in over a decade.

[Turing_Machine]

Safari and Chrome are both based on Webkit. SVN here: http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html

Apple's original plan was that third-party stuff would be in web app form. They took tons of flak from the developer community over that, so no, they didn't "push everyone to apps".

[huggyface]

Safari and Chrome are both based on Webkit.

And webkit derived from KHTML (loosely), the project coming to public attention as Apple came under criticism for taking but not giving.

Apple's original plan

And Google's original plan was don't be evil. I would never -- even if I ever got some screwed up idea that I need to defend a corporation online -- reference that to defend their honour.

[Turing_Machine]

I'm not "defending their hono[u]r". I'm pointing out that they didn't "push everyone to apps", which is a fact.

[ugh]

Kind of hard to believe, given that iOS was and still is the only mobile OS with a browser that does not suck. Even Android has only been catching up. iOS and Android have been an unambiguous blessing for the open web on mobile devices.

I don't even understand what you want Apple to do. Not allow third party developers to make native apps for iOS? Apple did that and nobody liked it. I can't imagine that you think this is a realistic solution.

[MatthewPhillips]

> I don't even understand what you want Apple to do. Not allow third party developers to make native apps for iOS? Apple did that and nobody liked it. I can't imagine that you think this is a realistic solution.

Here's the chain of events as I see it:

1) Apple decides not to support flash. 2) A lot of people get upset. 3) Apple releases their thoughts on flash[1] which revolves around flash being proprietary and HTML5 being an open solution. [1]http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ 4) Content owners can't delivery video through HTML5 because it's not DRM. 5) Apple works with content owners (specifically ABC) to create native iOS apps. Native apps on other platforms come way later, if ever. 6) HTML5 still doesn't have a solution for DRM content. Apple isn't working on this problem.

Basically they said one thing and then did another.

[ugh]

Yeah, that would have been swell had Apple worked with all their might to bring DRM to Safari! /s

What is wrong with you?! You are talking about the tiny slice of all possible stuff that pretends it needs fucking DRM. What. The. Hell.

[MatthewPhillips]

Big studio video content accounts for the vast majority of video streamed over the internet. Apple did not ignore DRM on their own platform; they have it, they encouraged big studios to use it (and they did, happily), they just ignored the cross-platform part. Which would be perfectly fine had they not released their "Thoughts on Flash" piece saying the exact opposite.

[ugh]

Pfffff. You are hilarious! Really, you are. Truly funny.

[huggyface]

Kind of hard to believe, given that iOS was and still is the only mobile OS with a browser that does not suck.

Yeah, I see John Gruber likes to say that.

It is, so to speak, horse shit. I apologize for the language but it's all that satisfactorily delivers my opinion on that. Have you ever actually used the Android browser?

[ugh]

Yes, and it sucked. I have been quite happy with the browser that comes with ICS, so I would say there's parity now. But nice job ignoring the actual point I was making.

[huggyface]

The point you were making was that the iOS browser is so superior to its competitors that it demonstrated Apple's commitment to the web.

Only the Android browser doesn't actually suck. I've never, ever heard someone actually describe why it sucks, they just repeat that going meme and smile and nod at each other. Yet despite all of its CSS chrome, many mobile dev projects abandon the effort and switch to an app after facing the less sexy, but deadly deficiencies in the iOS browser.

People are sure the iOS browser is great because they never actually use it. Instead they use apps.

[Cadsby]

"People are sure the iOS browser is great because they never actually use it. Instead they use apps."

I agree with some of your points, but as far as I'm aware every article I've seen on the subject points to iOS devices accounting for a large majority of mobile web browsing, so clearly a lot people don't think it sucks.

My personal experience using the Galaxy Nexus default browser for the last 2 months has been:

1. A bit more overall studdering when scrolling webpages than my iPhone. Nothing dramatic, but noticeable.

2. Double tap to zoom on paragraphs of text is really hit or miss. Half the time it zooms in incorrectly cutting off the edges of the text.

3. Embedded videos on a lot of websites refuse to play and prompt me to install Flash. On iOS they just serve up the html5 version and pay.

Overall I never found the default browser to be absolutely terrible, but I didn't love it either. Chrome beta has been a big step up in the last 24hrs already and am hoping this is where Google is set to put it's energy.

[ugh]

Huh? Why are you so sure that people don't use the iOS browser?

I use an RSS reader and the Twitter app (both pf which I also use on my PC). The rest (and majority of my time) on iOS devices I spend in a browser and I love it. The web experience on my iPad is awesome. I just don't see how Apple is hindering or sabotaging the open web with iOS. Sure, people like apps, but that's not unique to iOS, that's also true for Android. It's a property of native apps, not a property of Apple pushing native apps.

[nknight]

> Only the Android browser doesn't actually suck.

My two years on a Nexus One say otherwise.

> People are sure the iOS browser is great because they never actually use it.

What?

> Instead they use apps.

Last 8 apps launched on my iPhone: Safari, Messages, Settings, Flashlight, Mail, Phone, AirPhones, Kindle.

I spend more time in Safari than the latter 7 combined.

[bni]

There will always be native code in one form or another. It used to be Windows applications now it is iOS apps. The web will coexist and thrive in parallell to this.