[100011_100001]

I know that people mentioned you can't jump to the conclusion that it's social media, but on a personal level with two teen girls I have noticed something interesting.

Taking into account my friends/acquaintances that I'm familiar with their kids, so a sample of probably about 25ish teen girls. There is a big correlation of social media/cell phone access and issues.

Bullying, exposed to adult content, comparing yourself to others, drama, all have one consistent source, social media and cell phone apps. Personally, I don't allow social media, and my kids don't have cell phone access. They're in a very tiny minority compared to their peers. To me the benefits of this far outweigh any drawbacks.

I'm not saying that bullying doesn't happen outside social media, or anything like that, however, there definitely seems to be a heavy correlation between cell phone use and general teen angst. My girls, a small sample of two, seem to not have the same issues their peers have.

I strongly recommend evaluating the use of cell phones with your children for their own mental and emotional well-being. It has actually made me use social media a lot less because of it.

[AlexandrB]

Have you watched the movie "Eighth Grade"[1]? To me it seemed like a pretty insightful look into adolescence in the presence of social media and smart phones. However, not being a teenage girl myself nor having any kids I'm not sure how true to life it is.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7014006/

[Zircom]

Until it goes absolutely off the fucking rails in the third act, "Assassination Nation" runs in a similar vein but with highschool age kids.

[100011_100001]

I have not

[qwerpy]

> I don't allow social media, and my kids don't have cell phone access.

How is this working out? I assume your kids must have healthy social lives and don't feel left out, otherwise you'd have reconsidered. My kids will get to device-using age someday and I'd love to do something similar with mine. But am somewhat amazed that parents can enforce this even at the teenager stage.

[francisofascii]

I have a ninth grade daughter who we don't allow a smart phone. She has a dumb phone without group text. She still has friends that hang out at school, games, Starbucks etc. She is the only one in her friend group without a smart phone. Not having all the social media apps is great for her. Yes, she misses out on group texts, chat, silly non-sense, but she can check out at night, and focus on homework or going to bed.

[Larrikin]

Girls that boys are even remotely interested in are given old burner phones that work perfectly well on wifi with out a phone plan.

[zpeti]

I came here to ask this too, as someone with a younger daughter. OP please answer :)

[100011_100001]

See my reply to the original question.

[100011_100001]

Just to be clear my oldest, now in 8th grade does ask occasionally to have a phone still. I gave her a pre-pay flip phone for emergencies, it can text and call, that's pretty much it. She also has a simple mp3 player for music that I put mp3s in, no internet access.

They also have access to Youtube using my old phone. However, I have very clear rules about Youtube, which I can share if someone is curious. Finally, they have Amazon tablets with parental settings for their age group, and pretty much everything disabled except for books and kid apps.

I'm explaining all of this so people can understand that they have access to some electronics. Basically, I have covered some electronic needs that they have like music, watching an occasional video, play video games.

One of the advantages is by having specific devices for specific things I know what they are doing without having to watch over them.

Youtube is the biggest exposure my kids have. I have my account logged in, so I can see what they watch, they know this. With no adult settings. Moreover, there is only one time they are allowed to watch Youtube it's an hour and all 4 of them take turns. This has actually created something I didn't expect, it forces them to find common videos they can all enjoy, or they just won't watch at specific days that the videos are "boring".

If I look at the history and find a problematic video I will set expectations, reminders and sometimes I outright block certain channels. What's interesting is now that they have been doing this for a few years they monitor themselves. I hear them say "we can't watch that, find a different video".

To answer the other part of the question of do they "healthy social lives". They do. I actually thing social media gives you a false sense of socializing. "Look at all the friends / likes I have". Instead, my kids actually talk to other kids or play. My oldest is more into hang out, draw, listen to music kind of thing. Overall, my wife is really social by nature, she has what I call people magic, so my kids have learned to emulate that. We coincidentally moved to a new house this year, within a week they had established multiple friends and befriended the entire neighborhood.

Boredom helps, we all try to avoid it like the plague, but being bored allows you to become more creative. My kids go outside more, it helps that I have 4 because they can play with each other if no one else is around.

I don't want to pretend my kids are perfect, and I am an amazing dad. They have faults, so do I, a lot of them. To me the key is setting clear expectations and explaining the why. The joke in my house is they will probably learn how to drive before they have a cellphone. Honestly that might happen.

[j7ake]

Thanks for the details, would love to hear more about your YouTube rules.

[100011_100001]

Sure.

The main gist is adult or unknown content is not OK. Video game, creative (draw, paint etc), educational videos are fine.

Of course, I have had to refine these rules as things came up.

No TikTok videos on Youtube (the inappropriate to OK videos ratio is way to hit)

No funny prank videos (because most of them are people being mean to others)

No scarry videos unless it's kid Halloween videos and all the kids are OK with watching it (remember they share one screen and take turns on deciding)

Funny animal videos are fine.

Music videos are fine if we have watched it already with them, if they are not sure add "lyrics" to the end of the song and watch the lyric version or ask us (they just opt for lyrics to avoid having to ask/waiting)

If someone uses naughty words once it can be ignored, if they do it a lot especially if the 6-year-old is watching it's an auto change and the youtuber to be avoided (We allow our kids to curse in their rooms if they wish, but not at each other, in public, school or people that might have a problem with it, like their grandparents)

No videos from random channels about boyfriend/girlfriend drama, unknown origin animations about love stories (ratio of inappropriate language, innuendo, sexism, misogyny, abuse is too high). Again, they can ask if they are not sure.

I think that's pretty much it. Every few days, mainly when I watch a youtube video (probably every 2-3 days) I will look at the history. If I find something borderline I will watch the video briefly, if there is a problem, I will explain what it was, if it turns out it was an OK video I will move on.

If I find problematic youtubers I will block them, this is rare, but it has happened. I also see what the Youtube algo suggests, if I see a suggestion that seems iffy, I will mark it as not interested so my kids won't be drawn to it. As time has progressed their feed has gotten cleaner, and they understand what they can and cannot watch better.

Oh, and another thing I have Youtube Premium to avoid ads, because for some reason Google allows some really weird advertisements for children at times. I basically replaced my Spotify subscription for this, and started listening to Google music.

[JamesBarney]

I wonder which way the causality runs. Does using too much social media make your life suck, or do you run to using social media when you have a rough life?

[AlexandrB]

Even if the causality runs "life sucks" -> "social media", the effects of turning to social media to deal with stress are different than those of turning to alcohol or comics or D&D or whatever else kids had access to in the past. It's probably worth exploring the effects either way.

[100011_100001]

For me there is things you do that give you long term satisfaction and things you do that give you short term satisfaction.

I think both have a purpose and a place. However it's inherently obvious that things that are only short term satisfaction and the most dangerous, because you keep repeating the cycle.

For example liking memes is a short burst, a second later they are no longer relevant. For others it's shopping. You get a mini-high, but a few moments later that's gone. A lot of people seem to just keep pressing the button, get a droplet of happiness and press the button more time. That becomes a vicious cycle.

Essentially if your actions today are identical to tomorrow and nothing has changed, you are stuck in a loop. I'm not trying to argue that everyone needs to be hyper-productive all the time. What I'm talking about is if all your hobbies are consumption, you might be stuck.

D&D, which I play is different because you are doing it in a social setting. It's more like socializing with an excuse and a purpose, you get to exercise your creativity, imagination, you are actively using your mind. Passing things like watching youtube all day or drinking don't do that.

[GoblinSlayer]

You can just get Neverwinter Nights from 2002, that's D&D for you.

[kansface]

Both! Mental illness is quite often self reinforcing outside of the original etiology - clearly so or else it wouldn’t exist as a common meta stable state.

[29083011397778]

Hell, I'd say mental state instead of illness. Being happy-go-lucky tends to be self-reinforcing in some, or we could use whomever we know that's a "Glass half full" kind of person as our example.

[kataklasm]

In my opinion (and experience) this is not a one-way causality, but instead a vicious cycle.

[unsupp0rted]

Like narcotics

[908B64B197]

> There is a big correlation of social media/cell phone access and issues.

Social media is a convenient scapegoat. The media hates it with a passion since it completely disrupted their business model. And it allows people to completely ignore the fact that teenagers are increasingly under more and more stress with high stake testing, an increasingly competitive college admission process and increasingly grim prospects for economic mobility and long term environmental sustainability. But let's ignore all that and blame the "evil screens" and social media.

> comparing yourself to others, drama, all have one consistent source, social media and cell phone apps.

In 2018 "obesity prevalence was [...] 21.2% among 12- to 19-year-olds." [0] according to the CDC. That's one out of 5 being obese, not just overweight. And it has more than tripled since the 70's [1]. I have to wonder if it's related. A lot of teenagers are bombarded with images of perfectly healthy bodies that, quite simply, won't match what they see in the mirror.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/childhood.html

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_15_16/obe...

[treeman79]

I have several daughters. There is a huge inverse relationship between teens happiness and social media.

Our oldest Teen would be happy, respectful involved in the family. Be allowed back on social media within a few days. She was rude, disrespectful depressed, and just sat in bed all day. We would take it away within a couple of days she was back to her old happy self.

Repeat this for several years. The entire time she insisted, I did not affect her.

As an adult now she stays off of it, and strongly discourages her sisters from using social media and regrets being on it.

[za3faran]

Social media has been proven to play a huge role. I attended a seminar by Dr. Leonard Sax several years ago, and even then during the presentation he cited several papers about this matter, mentioning that it affects girls disproportionately more than boys.