[alisonatwork]

Annoyingly, this exact same thing happens in tech companies too.

In my current company, one of the employee perks is a lunch allowance. But to get the lunch allowance, you need to get a tax receipt from the place you bought lunch, and then scan it, submit the scan to a woefully slow and painful expense system, then also physically glue it to another claim sheet, and annotate it with some more details, etc etc. From my perspective it's essentially rewarding employees who waste the company time not doing the work they were hired to do. To me it's utterly absurd that any software developer spend their day doing expense claims when a professional administrator could do the job much faster and (probably) more cost-effectively.

And this isn't the first place I've worked like this either. I miss my job 20+ years ago when we had a secretary who not only took care of these things but also did stuff like take meeting minutes too. The loss of administrative staff has made the workplace far less efficient, in my opinion.

[gnicholas]

Somebody needs to bring his/her kid to work over the summer and start a side-business of processing reimbursements for a buck or two apiece.

> From my perspective it's essentially rewarding employees who waste the company time not doing the work they were hired to do.

I think they're counting on the fact that relatively wealthier employees won't miss $15 in reimbursements, or will feel 'cheap' submitting the receipts. The company has found a way to just subsidize lower-paid/cost-sensitive employees.

It's creating friction in order to get employees to self-select into (1) those who find the free lunch to be a meaningful perk, and (2) those who don't care that much. But I completely agree that it creates frustration for those who do it (and those who don't due to the time-consuming nature). I wonder if people would feel better about it if the company came out and said that they have an inefficient submission system specifically to deter wealthier employees from claiming the benefit?

[indeedmug]

> "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor

There probably isn't a grand strategy when it comes to awful processes. The process was probably setup by some woefully overstretch person. No one bothered to update the process because there are too many fires from the other awful processes that was also setup by another woefully overstretch person.

[gnicholas]

I'm not suggesting malice at all! An economist would even call it 'efficiency'.

It's also possible this is a hybrid — that the process grew in complexity for exogenous reasons, and when someone considered streamlining it, they realized that doing so would result in more reimbursements processed (specifically for more well-off employees) and decided to leave it be.

[bumby]

I ran into this with a safety reporting system that required a hand-mailed complaint to company HQ. When we inquired as to the possibility of updating to an online system, one primary reason was that they did not want it too easy to report safety issues because then they would be obligated to process the higher volume of complaints. They felt this bureaucracy made their side more efficient (but I would argue less effective).

[taylorius]

I don't subscribe to Hanlon's razor. I'm not convinced there is a clear dividing line between stupidity and malice. Is greed and selfishness malicious, or stupid? Both? And who is to know the contents of a bureaucrat's heart when they reject your form? Hanlon's razor is nothing but a broom to sweep bad intentions under the rug.

[hoseja]

I stop Hanlon's Razor at the individual level. As soon as you have a meme-entity subject to evolutionary pressure (corporation, government, nation, religion, charity, ...), assume maximum malice only loosely limited by its effect on fitness.

[taylorius]

I agree 100%. If one were to apply Hanlon's razor in those circumstances, one would have to explain how such entities always seem to come out on top from their "stupid" actions.

[raverbashing]

> by some woefully overstretch person.

Doubt. And if they're overstretched it's most likely because of their own shortcomings

No, sounds more like playing whatever little amount of power they have

[mrtksn]

That's strange because this problem is actually solved with specialised payment cards that you give your employees and they can spend their allowance they way they like and there's no paperwork because the card network handles the restrictions on what the card can be used.

Maybe those are not available everywhere?

[setr]

That’s.. interesting. My current company has had issues with optimizing reimbursements, mostly because it was previously an honor system but with recent growth you’ve gotten abusers (usually people coming from large companies e.g. minorly more convenient flights for triple the price — solved by travel agent — Uber black rides — solved by manual review, family outings billed as client dinners, etc). Not sure how much would really get captured by automated credit cards, but it seems like something worth suggesting.

Any idea what the actual name of it is?

[palebluedot]

TripActions Liquid is one of these solutions. Spending categories and limits are enabled on the VISA card, and can also be time-blocked (for trip per diems). No receipts necessary, you can only use it in the approved categories.

[mrtksn]

Sodexo Restaurant Pass is a big one, there are many other alternatives. I see Sodexo offers the service in Germany, India, Turkey and probably other countries but apparently it's not a global thing. Ticket Restaurant is another big one.

[hackeraccount]

Just pay people more.

[rsj_hn]

I think these companies are exploiting the fact that many tech employees value the $20 lunch perk more than an extra $5K in salary. I've seen this first hand, and for a lot of employees, a paid lunch is valued far more than it should be.

This is the basic reason for a lot of office perks. I'd personally prefer the cash and arrange for my own gym/lunch/coffee bar, as I don't want work to swallow up my life, but I'm in the minority.

[neilknowsbest]

To be sure, $20 per day at ~250 days per year is $5k. And that's tax-free to the employee, so if they're going to be spending that money on lunch anyways, it is better for the employee to trade the $5k pretax salary for the lunch benefit.

[rsj_hn]

It's not tax-free. It's compensation and taxes must be paid on it. It makes no difference whether your employer buys a sandwich and gives it to you or gives you money to buy a sandwich, it all adds to your income and is taxable, as is your gym reimbursement, etc. Firms that do this increase the withholding taxes and add these benefits to your total compensation which you can review -- go take a look at your employer-provided withholding forms.

[neilknowsbest]

Interesting, I hadn't realized that. I always assumed that firms doing this were just reimbursing the employee and then putting the lunch/whatever expense onto their own books.