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by andreysolsty 1296 days ago
You can be an ad company and respect your users privacy. They’re not mutually exclusive as the headline seems to suggest.
6 comments

Unsubstantiated claims can be responded to with unsubstantiated replies.

Being an ad company and respecting user privacy are completely at odds. The incentives are misaligned.

How about companies that purely advertise via:

* bill boards and similar

* printed media ads

* ads that respond to keyword searches - without relying on any other user data

* display ads on topical websites (e.g. guitar ads on guitar related websites) - without relying on any other user data

The first two do not have low latency high bandwidth connections (or often any connection at all) to the user to collect data, so it's not a reasonable comparison. As for the third, I understand that duck.com claims this, but I don't buy their claims, considering their behavior. None of these sites that claim to not collect user data should be trusted until they submit to a transparent audit that exposes all their infrastructure. As for the fourth, this is a tiny exception to the rule held up by some individual with standards.

Apple doesn't fit the pattern of any of your examples.

Had anyone actually substantiated the claim about the unconfirmed non-disabling device ID beyond a single packet and theorizing about encrypted packets?

Because the whole article is based on this evidence and peoples’ desire to dog pile on apple.

Can you be an ad company and respect your users, though? Google and Microsoft failed to do this, not because they didn't protect their user's identity but because they kept squeezing for more and more cash when the UX was already hurting. I'm not confident that Apple can resist those temptations (judging by the way they treat their own native advertising).
Adding advertising likely will cost them hardware sales. if so, their hardware branch might have enough clout to keep their advertising branch under control.

Phrased another way: adding a few billions of advertising revenue wouldn’t make Apple an advertising company, just as selling smartphones hasn’t made Google a hardware company

They already have advertising, at least in MacOS. Every time I put on my headphones I get a pop-up ad for Apple Music, and I can't hide iCloud or Safari's constant nagging to get me to use them.

Everyone has their own limits, but I left the ecosystem after Mojave (with this being one reason).

I don’t know, is that really advertisement? These seems more akin to a program’s popup of its new features or that you can also go pro. Sure, nitpickingly these are ads, but they are related to the context, not intrusive, and not coming from a third party.

If anything, it is more analogous to my friend telling me about that vacuum cleaner he bought that he finds a great buy when I bring up the topic of vacuum cleaners. Surely, it is still an ad, but you get the difference.

If “Every time I put on my headphones I get a pop-up ad for Apple Music” is true, don’t see how you could call that “not intrusive”.

If I got an advertisement for a new iPhone every time I woke up my current one, IMO ‘intrusive’ would be too kind a word to use, too.

I also think “related to the context” is debatable. Headphones aren’t only used to listen to music.

> If “Every time I put on my headphones I get a pop-up ad for Apple Music” is true, don’t see how you could call that “not intrusive”.

It is not true, simple as that

> be an ad company and respect your users privacy

As an ad broker, you usually cannot. If you respect the users privacy, and another competing ad broker does not, then the competitor will make better ad placement decisions, get a higher click through rate, and give advertisers better ROI. Therefore, the ad broker that respects privacy will get less and less business and die.

The only way an ad broker can respect privacy is if they can prevent any other ad broker operating in the same marketplace. Ie. You need to be a monopoly in your niche.

Apple can do this by hobbling any other ad provider operating on iPhones or targeting iPhone user through their app store rules.

I've always wondered how apple gets away with its monopolies when other companies don't/can't.
I think they point in the general direction of Google's Play Store, and exclaim, "Here's another app store, hence we're not a monopoly", and then proceed to enjoy their monopoly.
They aren't mutually exclusive, but their incentives are opposed, usually the incentives bringing in the money win.
Are there any examples of this being done?
It's all a matter of definitions. For example, Google doesn't sell user data to third parties, does that make Google respect user privacy a lot better than other ad companies? Sure yes. But Google often takes user data from one product and uses it for targeting in a different product, and it doesn't respect user privacy as much as a non-ad company.
> Google doesn't sell user data to third parties

Ad companies generally don't. Data brokers will set user data, but advertisement based companies do not sell user data.

> does that make Google respect user privacy a lot better than other ad companies?

"better" is the operative word in that statement. Just because Google spies on me and is slightly less worse about how they use that data, does not mean that they respect my privacy.

Google collects massive amounts of user data from visits to non-Google properties via Google Analytics and AdSense.
https://www.ethicalads.io

I mean, I haven't audited their systems and haven't seen any reports from independent auditors, but at least they are making direct statements about privacy that the other ad networks aren't.

Duck Duck Go?
That wasn't for their ads on their search engine, but their browser. Even that link says the ads from their search engine are private.

And iirc they have stopped doing that with the browser also.

Is DDG generally considered "an ad company"?
That is the primary product they sell.
Yes
Context matters. In an ideal, sane, and rational situation, Yes.

But not when Apple has themselves contributed, if not started the whole Ads, or Tracking is evil campaign.