[bgribble]

On urban US supermarket shelves virtually every bottle of olive oil advertises itself as "virgin" or the "even better" varieties ("extra virgin", "first cold pressed" etc). I have read that many of these labels are hogwash, and that the contents of your typical supermarket "extra virgin olive oil" bottle pretty often include adulterants like palm, canola, or sunflower oil.

I can definitely taste the diff between supermarket stuff and super-premium olive oil where I know who the importer is (in New York City, my go-to is the house brand of a restaurant called Frankie's 457 Spuntino who imports their own oil). But I'm not sure whether that reflects the quality of olives/processing, or is an indicator of "real" vs "fake" olive oil...

[_moof]

The North American Olive Oil Association maintains a list of genuine olive oils. They send people into grocery stores to randomly buy a bottle of one of the listed brands/varieties and test it in their lab.

https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/64-certified-pure-and-authenti...

[yrral]

Interesting, from the article:

> Does the fact that an olive oil does not have your seal mean that the olive oil is not authentic?

> The answer is emphatically no. According to a study conducted by scientists from the FDA in a study published in 2015 that the risk of purchasing a bottle of adulterated EVOO is low (less than 5%). The scientists randomly sampled 88 bottles of EVOO that they purchased from supermarkets and online stores, and did not find a single instance of adulteration

I wonder where the opposite fact that I hear on the internet that most olive oil is adulterated comes from.

[bscphil]

> I wonder where the opposite fact that I hear on the internet that most olive oil is adulterated comes from.

I think it might come from conflating two different issues. Most EVOO in the US is "legit" - it actually is EVOO, although there are exceptions. On the other hand, a whole bunch of EVOO is "low quality", or more precisely, rancid. I've even heard that it's so common that Americans have come to prefer the taste of rancid olive oil over fresh.

Here's an article on FiveThirtyEight that explains the connection between the two problems:

> You may have heard by now that the olive oil in your kitchen cupboard may be an impostor. After a 2010 report found that 69 percent of imported olive oil in the U.S. failed to meet international standards, thousands of news stories were published, often incorrectly describing the presence of “fake” olive oils in grocery stores. ... The hysteria recently led Congress to assign a new job to the the Food and Drug Administration: sampling imported olive oil to see whether it’s adulterated or fraudulently labeled. ... But there’s something that not even the mighty FDA can fix: most of us don’t know the difference between a high- and low-quality olive oil.

> Though there’s a long history of scandal in the olive oil world, the problem in the U.S. for consumers is less about oil that isn’t made from olives, and more about olive oil that doesn’t meet the quality standards declared on its label. But since most people in the U.S. can’t tell fusty and musty from pungent and fruity, low-quality olive oil masquerading as extra virgin is a hard problem to fix. ... “We call the U.S. the world’s dumping ground for rancid and defective olive oil. We don’t know the difference,” said Sue Langstaff ... Studies have shown that even frequent olive oil consumers in the U.S. don’t know what the extra virgin or cold pressed designations mean, let alone have the ability to taste the difference. And in blind taste tests, consumers often prefer lower-quality olive oils.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-of-us-are-blissful...

[colechristensen]

> I wonder where the opposite fact that I hear on the internet that most olive oil is adulterated comes from.

If someone on the internet is telling you something is bad, they probably got their information from someone else on the internet. The number of people willing to guess based on their gut feelings is too damn high. People don’t know what they’re talking about and letting everybody know how bad for you something is is a toxic infectious idea disease.

Where does it come from? I’m guessing in this case the trend of making a product like salad dressing that advertises its evoo content and neglects to mention it also contains a majority of cheaper oils unless you actually look at the ingredients.

[dwohnitmok]

Although there is still some amount of self-interest there (presumably the North American Olive Oil Association still indirectly benefits from increased olive oil consumption, even if it's not olive oil sold by one of its members), it's quite refreshing to see a certification organization straightforwardly assess the risk to consumers from getting a non-certified product with absolutely no waffling about. Too often certification organizations resort to FUD to play up the amount of danger in getting something without their stamp of approval.

[AdrianB1]

I read several times 2 stories in the past 5 years: the exported quantity of olive oil in Italy is bigger than the entire country's production and the global sales of Motul engine oils is 3 to 5 times bigger than their production capacity. I am not 100% of these stories, but at the time I read these they were from multiple reputable sources.

[jeffbee]

Is this one of those schisms like exists between USDA organic and California organic? Because your list doesn't include any olive oils I would actually eat, whereas they are all on this list: https://cooc.com/certified-oils/

[chrischen]

According to the OP’s website:

> “In 2010, the UC Davis Olive Center, an organization created to promote the sale of California olive oil, published a report funded by California olive oil producers and companies. The purpose of the report was to make news that would discredit their competition – imported olive oils.”

https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/olive-oil-fraud

So it seems like these two organizations are at odds with each other. But the California study was based on subjective “taste tests” to identify fake olive oils… Big red flag there.

[jeffbee]

That's funny because UC Davis also publishes an annual report for olives, like they do for all other crops, which conclusively demonstrates that nobody can, and nobody has, ever made a profit growing olives in California. So they're boosters on the one hand and realists on the other.

[tiagod]

I live in Portugal where most olive oil is good quality.

The taste and appearance among good olive oil varies wildly and the super-premium ones will usually taste quite different from standard decent quality supermarket extra virgin.

[vasco]

I can confirm, we have a single huge olive tree in a small piece of land my grandpa bought in the 80s to have extra food and this single tree gives 3 people enough olive oil for the whole year (portuguese standards, so cooking with it plus codfish "drowning" in it on the plate). We hit the tree so they fall, then take it to a guy that presses it and you have your olive oil.

Definitely completely different from store olive oil, and definitely on a completely other league to what I had in the US.

[VBprogrammer]

I lived with a Greek flatmate for a while. By far the best olive oil I've had was from their family owned olive grove. Usually brought back from his trips home in reused milk jugs.

[ericbarrett]

There used to be a vineyard in Lake County (CA) that made small-batch olive oil from trees on their estate. Sadly, the trees were destroyed in a fire a few years ago. I'll never forget the taste; it had a very strong olive flavor and was so acidic it actually felt spicy on your tongue. Have never found its equal in a store, no matter how exotic and/or pricey.

[disillusioned]

A great oil finishing with a strong black pepper taste is fairly achievable if you know where to look.

Zingerman's Mail Order does a phenomenal job of sourcing olive oils like this but also of specifically calling out the tasting notes and the differences in their options.

Two that they have that specifically hit this spiciness you're looking for:

https://www.zingermans.com/Product/petraia-olive-oil/O-PET https://www.zingermans.com/Product/la-spineta-olive-oil/O-SP...

But in my experience, their live chat or phone service is absolutely amazing at guiding you to a great option, too.

[sithadmin]

Zingerman's product selection is great, but their customer service is truly next level. I send folks gifts via Zingerman's frequently, and Zingerman's sends me random unsolicited gifts in return. I don't know how I couldn't continue to patronize them.

[elorant]

Early harvest olive oil is like that. It’s from olives that aren’t ripped so the flavor is spicier. It’s quite expensive too; two to three times the price of the normal one.

[colechristensen]

I went to farmers markets in the Bay Area and was able to find that kind of spicy olive oil easily enough. If there’sa grumpy old man selling oil, tell him what you want.

[3pt14159]

My default these days in Canada is Greek or Chilean olive oil. I've lived in Cyprus for almost half a year. I know what good olive oil tastes like, and yes, the grocer olive oil back home in Canada isn't as good, but it's way better than the local or even Italian stuff. It tastes like real olive oil.

I don't know what is going on with Italian olive oil these days, and maybe I've just had a bad couple batches in a row, but it will take a long time for me to trust it again. It almost always tastes diluted with other oils to my pallet.

[tiagod]

Yeah, all I've got is unlabeled jugs of oil a friend pressed himself

[JohnJamesRambo]

I am so envious of you right now, to have even tasted this.

[ryanwaggoner]

I think these fears are overblown, at least based on this 2015 study by the FDA:

"The authenticity of 88 market samples of EVOO was evaluated ... with purity criteria specified in the United States Standards for grades of olive oil and olive-pomace oil. Three of the 88 samples labeled as EVOO failed to meet purity criteria, indicating possible adulteration with commodity oil and/or solvent-extracted olive oil."

Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286479191_Authentic...

[scottLobster]

My understanding is that's mostly an issue with imported "blends" that claim olive oil from multiple sources. Single origin stuff is usually safer, and domestically produced Californian olive oil is usually what it says it is. You can also look for harvest dates and seals from the various olive councils for purity.

[jancsika]

It's trickier than you let on.

At least for California, you have to look for the California Olive Oil Council seal if you want to be sure:

https://cooc.com/about-the-seal/

For example: there is a company called "California Olive Ranch." It used to have a popular olive oil sold in a lot of larger grocery stores that had the COOC seal. Then it started to source olives (oil?) from somewhere outside California and blend with the California olives[1]. That broke the rules of the COOC seal-- to have the word "California" on the label you can't blend with non-Californian olives. So the seal is no longer on that bottle, but the name "California Olive Ranch" is obviously on that label because it's the name of the company.

Thus, a shopper would be misled by your second sentence and buy an oil with olives and whatever else from imported non-Californian sources. That means the third sentence is also wrong-- looking for harvest dates and COOC seal isn't something that the shopper can do to double check their choice. Rather, that is the only thing they can do to be sure they're getting actual virgin olive oil of sufficient quality (the seal) that isn't rancid (the harvest date being within less than a year).

Edit: I don't have a link, but there was a recent COOC fiasco where a lot of the smaller farms got up in arms due to a proposed language change in the requirements for obtaining the seal. Don't remember the details, but it sure sounded like it would have made it easier for a member to blend with some amount of imported olives and still carry the seal.

Honestly, I think there's enough intrigue and drama in this topic of finding bona fide olive oil to start a substack subscription thingy if anyone is interested in that. :)

[abeppu]

> At least for California, you have to look for the California Olive Oil Council seal if you want to be sure

Is there a ranking of olive oil certifying organizations? I ask b/c I when I googled for olive oil testing, I came across the Olive Oil Commission of California, which apparently both does testing and requires members to also do testing, and California Olive Ranch is still a member in good standing of that one. http://www.oliveoilcommission.org/trusted/

Does this mean that even if they sourced olives from outside of California, it still meets some lab tests for pure extra virgin olive oil? If I care more about the "is actually extra virgin olive oil" question than where the olives were grown, I should be satisfied?

Also, I'm annoyed that even if multiple parties are doing tests, we don't really see published that "Brand X isn't pure olive oil, according to independent lab", or even "Brands X, Y, Z were tested, and Brands Y, Z are real olive oil". I'm assuming this is for legal reasons?

[jancsika]

> Is there a ranking of olive oil certifying organizations?

Even skimming, the COOC guidelines look to be more rigorous.

In addition to lab tests (by one of three labs approved by COOC), there's a blind sensory test by olive oil experts, a requirement to print the harvest date on the vessel, and a requirement to print a "best by" date as well.

I understand your desire to find out the quality regardless of the provenance of the olives. But given the rampant fraud in the industry, I just can't see a persuasive argument for speculating about an oil that doesn't pass both certifications in California. Especially when the company in question has the word "California" in its name, more especially when its oil was previously certified by COOC. By the time you figure out the answers to all your questions, we'll be on to the next harvest and the bottle of olive oil you wanted to buy will have gone bad.

[armchairhacker]

I get California Olive Branch “100% California” EVOO because I heard it was genuine. Do you know if this is true, and if not, which brands are?

I only add like 1tsp of oil to the pan when cooking so I can justify using the more expensive brands, though i don’t really taste a difference

[jfengel]

Once you heat it, the differences become negligible to nonexistent. Good-quality oils are most important in raw uses, such as dips and salad dressings.

It's a hassle to maintain a "cooking olive oil" and a "raw olive oil", so the worst you're doing is wasting a tiny bit of money for the convenience of keeping around just one bottle.

As for the particular brand you mention... yes, it's very well reputed. Being produced in the US, there are fewer opportunities for fraud that occur when importing mass-produced oils. (Imported artisan oils are often extremely good, but pricey because of the overhead.)

You probably would notice the difference if you were to compare it to other brands -- especially when the bottle is newly opened. In cooking... eh, I just use a bottle of whatever's cheap.

[nicoburns]

> It's a hassle to maintain a "cooking olive oil" and a "raw olive oil"

I find the price difference(between supermarket extra virgin olive oil, and actually delicious stuff) is pretty significant (4x-5x). Well worth keeping around to bottles.

[derekp7]

I think that is the brand I picked up at Walmart one time. And I really did notice the difference -- it had a more buttery texture, and was delicious on my salad.

[dotancohen]

That buttery flavor might have been canola oil mixed in.

[stevenwoo]

If one trusts Consumer Reports they do a study every so often on best tasting (one of the cheaper Trader Joe's brand came out on top with EVOO in the middle tier off the top of my head), though if you use only small amounts for cooking one may not be able to tell a big difference. Also some studies showed people preferred rancid oil! so who knows, what we grow up with probably has a heavy influence on taste preferences. You might want to try some white bread and maybe a little garlic mixed in your oil and use that as a dipping sauce to get a sense of the flavor (over just drinking it. :) ). UC Davis might have a California bent and be California ag sponsored but because it has an agricultural college there are plenty of studies originating there about olive oil. Just search UC Davis and olive oil.

[npongratz]

> Also some studies showed people preferred rancid oil!

I was once in a casual, blind taste test at an Anheuser-Busch facility where at least half of the dozen testers preferred the beer whose kegs had been sitting out in the hot sun for two weeks, instead of the kegs of the same vintage that had been sitting in the refrigerated warehouse during that time.

As they say, "there's no accounting for taste."

[leephillips]

People living in industrialized societies, especially the US, are accustomed to the taste of old food, and fresh food tastes wrong to them. Testing packaging that reduces the rate of oxidation exposed this taste preference: in tests many US people preferred slightly oxidized milk, etc., although objectively this is a form of spoilage. Similarly, some people prefer the distorted sound of LPs to accurately reproduced music. People prefer what they’re used to.

[technothrasher]

I can't stand even slightly rancid oils, and I've found that most people don't notice it at all until you point it out to them. Rancid vs fresh peanut butter is the most noticeable one to let people taste test next to each other. Once they identify the rancid smell and flavor they all agree the fresh is better. Though a couple of times I've hit people who just cannot tell the difference. I envy them.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I get California Olive Branch “100% California” EVOO because I heard it was genuine. Do you know if this is true, and if not, which brands are?

Broadly speaking, get what you know and what's close.

Have a friend in Italy, Greece or Spain? Get it from them. Live in California? Get it from there. The longer the supply and trust chains for something like olive oil, the higher the chances of funny business.

[efficax]

the 100% california stuff is genuine, although a blend from california farms (so not single olive estate, which the best stuff is. i think they also sell single olive oils but they are very expensive). The blended stuff from south american olives is also probably real. It certainly tastes real if not as nice and peppery as the good stuff. If you're ever in northern california a lot of the wineries in sonoma / napa also grow and press olive oil, those are worth grabbing and savouring. wonderful by the spoonful.

[OgAstorga]

I like that wherever I travel I can find Kirkland's EVOO. It's not the freshest but it's not fake (combined with low quality vegetable oils).

[zwieback]

Hmm, I recently switched from TJ Greek Kalamata to a super-market brand because the former didn't taste good to me anymore. Now I learn that that particular TJ stuff is "authentic" (or "orthentic" as Paulie Senior liked to say) so YMMV.

[OJFord]

> On urban US supermarket shelves virtually every bottle of olive oil advertises itself as "virgin" or the "even better" varieties ("extra virgin", [...]

That's interesting, I was thinking (in pure headline reaction) I don't think I've ever seen (in the UK) anything other (w.r.t. virginity anyway) than 'olive oil' and 'extra virgin olive oil'. Never 'virgin' or 'slightly more virgin' or 'supremely virgin'.

[lg]

In NYC you are spoiled for choice, my go-to is Mani marketplace that periodically gets a batch in from their dad's grove in the Mani :)