[notaslave]

Same here. My wife calls herself a feminist. Yet, when I cried one time in front of her, instead of comforting me, she told me - stop crying, you are making me angry.

Another time, she told me that the only value I bring to her life is 'to provide for our kid until they turn adult'.

I don't think we will be together much longer lol.

[Slow_Hand]

Man, I'm sorry to hear that. That's a terrible thing to hear.

I don't know the best way to proceed, since you no doubt have entanglements such as your children to consider, but I wish you all the best in finding your way out of that relationship. You deserve better than someone who would treat you that way.

[isthisthingon99]

I would not recommend divorcing. She has said she will remain married to you until the kids are adult. This is a GREAT commitment.

Appreciate that she has made this commitment. Confirm it to her and tell her you are on board, and you will make life as easy as possible for the both of you until then. See if she is willing to make the same commitment out loud.

I have a suspicion, perhaps too romantic, that once you and her are broken from the bonds of obligation, you will discover yourselves again and will voluntarily decide to stay together.

But then again, some people just shouldn't be married.

[phkahler]

>> I would not recommend divorcing. She has said she will remain married to you until the kids are adult. This is a GREAT commitment.

So where I live, the standard for alimony is 1 year for every 3 that you are married. On top of that, if you're married 20+ years they think you should pay for life. There is no law that states this and couples are free to decide whatever they can agree to, but once layers are involved you're at a more significant financial risk the longer you stay married.

In short, if you honestly believe it will not work you should get out sooner rather than later. It will be better for both of you. Not sure about the kids though, but living under a broken relationship isn't good for them either.

[isthisthingon99]

You make a good point. It seems like society is disincentivizing long term marriages.

[atq2119]

I feel for you. Nobody should have to put up with this kind of treatment. Take care of yourself and your kid.

[silexia]

As a man, I find myself increasingly detesting other men who whine. Our society now wants all men to be able to cry just like women can and everyone should applaud. But we have a billion generations of evolution behind us pushing men who don't cry in the face of problems, but fight and overcome. Maybe I am just a backwards throwback, but maybe not. All of the men who cry in front of women (even women who claim crying is okay) that I've heard of are not embraced, but reviled. That is just biology. Toughen up.

[CoastalCoder]

I'm sorry for your situation. It's beyond crappy. If it's any comfort, know that there are people who don't assume you're the one at fault.

[bloqs]

Your wife is closed minded, something often correlated with lower general cognitive ability.

But after that second quote about value, that is a big, fluttering red flag signal for you to leave. That is no longer a functioning relationship.

[bobkazamakis]

how does gender even play into this? seems a lot more like you married a shitty person who has more rigid ideas about gender norms than you. this situation can just as easily apply to two men.

[steve_adams_86]

In fact I’ve watched it play in reverse many times. Men telling their partners to overcome psychological barriers to perform certain tasks to their preference for example.

A guy I knew once told his girlfriend “just be a mom!” when she was tired and their son was crying. Rather than be a dad, he demanded that she resume a role and shamed her for wanting a break.

And yet I’ve experienced the same as a man. The sort of “just be a man” mentality and rhetoric you can encounter is widespread and ranges through all depths of relationships. Ever been unemployed as a man? People can be absurdly insensitive and unkind about it. It really makes people uneasy sometimes… Like there must be something wrong with you. Never mind why you’re unemployed; there could be any number of valid reasons, but people seem to assume that’s not the case.

The point is that this isn’t a gendered problem. I suppose it’s a people being selfish problem first, coupled with many possible issues leading to the selfishness and the gendered presumptions we make about our partners. We do the same thing with genderless accusations though. We just want certain behaviours from our partners and use all kinds of means to justify it, gendered or not.

[rafaelero]

Not sure if you are waiting for an incentive, but here we go: leave her.

[hdjjhhvvhga]

Well, I wouldn't advise that without knowing the full details of the situation, and especially how sensitive the kid is. I've heard many discussions on that point, with divorced parents arguing "it's better for the kid if they don't see us quarrel all the time" and those still being couples saying "a kid needs both parents."

My personal observation is that if the parents love the kid more than they dislike themselves, they are going to stay, at least until the kids become adults.

[tremon]

My personal experience says that it's way better for the kid not to grow up in a dysfunctional household: they will grow up not even knowing what a functional relationship looks like. Just "being civil" to the other is not enough, kids will form their attachment models on how they see their parents interact.

If you want your kid to have successful relationships when they grow up, FFS don't let your kid grow up in an unsuccessful one.

[em-bee]

right, but once you have a failed relationship, either choice (stay together or separate) will have a negative impact. so really, the best way to salvage the kids future is to actually repair the relationship.

[caeril]

Yes. Children are 800-3000% more likely to be physically or sexually abused by the mother's live-in boyfriend or step-father than by their biological father, but we don't want them to have bad feels.

Good call.

[tester756]

what are absolute numbers? because % is useless

[saiya-jin]

Kids need role models. One saying is roughly about: boys grow up wanting to be like their dads, and girls grow up wanting to marry similar men.

If kids are exposed to frequent arguments, spirals of primitive abuse, hatred, emotional coldness etc. they won't end up faring well in adulthood, and all the efforts of parents trying to stay together for them are pointless.

But yeah its a shitty situation where everybody loses.

[IG_Semmelweiss]

That personal observation is an excellent point of wisdom.

I would replace "dislike" with "incompatible" though.

You can be very attracted physicslly to someone who is your intellectual and economic equal, to then not be able to hold it together because that person's personal traits ans preferences are so far off one's own. It goes beyond "he liked to watch tv instead of going out to eat w me"

That being said, your observation should be a heuristic, and it should be repeated more often.

[rafaelero]

We have enough information, though. The wife doesn't respect him. Regarding the kid, s/he will be fine. Even if there is some turmoil on the kid's life, your life as an adult also matters. You deserve to be happy. Don't sacrifice yourself to make what you think are the best decisions to your son. You really don't have all that power you think you have to influence their lifes.

[mensetmanusman]

That sacrifices the kids. It is at least worth a salvaging attempt.

[mattgreenrocks]

Her treatment of you is absolutely disgusting. She should be told that in those terms, and you should demand an apology.

[atq2119]

While I agree that nobody should have to put up with that sort of treatment, demanding an apology is not going to work. Couple's therapy might help if you manage to find a good one, but frankly chances are low and he should mentally prepare himself to move out and potentially fight for custody.

[naijaboiler]

Or just accept that's his role as man, even though matte modern feminism tries to tell you otherwise

[atq2119]

Some people might be happy with that role, and sure, if it works for them, great!

But I do think it's quite reasonable to expect more from life and relationships. Women tend to expect more, and society doesn't tell them not to.

It's possible to have a self-consistent worldview that does tell both men and women to expect less, but personally I think that would make for a worse society.

[caeril]

> Her treatment of you is absolutely disgusting

I mean, this is par for the course for nearly every married man in the West, myself included. We are objectified as wallets, we are treated very poorly, and when they inevitably leave to "find myself", they collect 50% of the assets we've earned and saved, and we collect 50% of the debts they've racked up in their instagram-influenced spending.

You can characterize the situation as "disgusting", but it's reality for millions of us.

Reality doesn't care about our moral judgements. It is what it is. The best we can do is attempt to educate our sons on the risks inherent in contractually obligating oneself to people who hate you.

[rootusrootus]

> this is par for the course for nearly every married man in the West

Good grief, I hope not. My wife is nothing like that. At all. And very few of my friends and acquaintances have experienced a relationship like that. How sad to think that this is what marriage ought to be. That's horrifying. I'd be single and celibate before I'd let someone treat me that way.

[worthless-trash]

You wouldnt even hear about it in most cases.

[archagon]

Certainly not the case for any of the married couples I know. What a ridiculous assertion.

[packetlost]

Idk, I think it's pretty common. Certainly not for healthy relationships; but I'd wager there are a really really high number of not healthy relationships at any given moment, even if they don't usually last that long. There are toxic people all over the place, and not everyone is good at recognizing toxicity.

[archagon]

While I’m sure you’re right, the comment I replied to specifically said “nearly every married man.”

Not to discount the lived experiences of men in this thread, but the discussion in here reeks of bitter manosphere ideology. Maybe people need to stop extrapolating their toxic relationships to an entire gender, or blaming them on biology.

[packetlost]

I would argue that a majority of men have encountered a potential partner that viewed them that way, but yeah applying that to all marriages is just... not even remotely true.

[ReactiveJelly]

But you chose to marry this woman, so at that time you thought it would turn out well, and that the legal contract and possibility of paying alimony was fair?

[caeril]

Marriage is, unfortunately, not a rational decision for many of us. In my specific case, she got pregnant, and I "did the right thing" for the sake of a stable home for my child(ren).

And on that specific front, things are fine. The kids believe they are being raised in a warm, loving household. I've accepted my fate, but I will raise my son with different lessons than I had.

That said, I have (multiple) friends whose fiances turned from "Perfect Angel" into "Literally Hitler" the day after marriage, so even if my situation was a proper evaluation of my life partner, it should be noted that many men are defrauded by that particular trap as well.

[rootusrootus]

> did the right thing

That's optimistic naïveté speaking. Marrying someone you got pregnant just because it's the right thing to do, is in fact very much the wrong thing.

> The kids believe they are being raised in a warm, loving household

Maybe when they are very young. Kids aren't stupid, and you can't fake a warm, loving relationship accurately enough nor consistently enough to keep them fooled very long. At some point way before they become adults they realize exactly what is going on. At best they'll pity you. At worst they'll resent you for subjecting them to your inability to adult.

[tasuki]

You are of course spot on with your comment, just:

>> The kids believe they are being raised in a warm, loving household

> Maybe when they are very young.

Ehh, even a one year old is very good at sensing their parents' emotions.

[CoastalCoder]

I'd be curious to hear from an experienced marriage counselor how often this kind of situation can be salvaged.

[CrazyPyroLinux]

Not myself, but channeling another: "Research on toxic communication patterns in relationships shows that contempt is an accurate predictor of divorce." https://www.emberrelationshippsychology.com/blog/the-mistake...

[hdjjhhvvhga]

> She should be told that in those terms, and you should demand an apology.

And how exactly this should help? It's clearly past that point already.

[anonymoushn]

It also doesn't sounds like a sufficiently manly way to address the issue, in his wife's view.