[STRML]

So what's the working theory here? Does the shrinkage allow new attachments to grow, essentially a "re-wiring" that causes the mother and father to focus on the child more than the rest of their lives?

Anecdotally, I feel that experience; consequently, business tasks have become much harder. I don't believe it'll be anything more than temporary, but it is certainly substantial.

[arcanus]

> Anecdotally, I feel that experience; consequently, business tasks have become much harder.

Interesting. My experience was the opposite. After the initial sleep deprivation, once our child was sleep trained, I achieved a new level of productivity in my life.

Before children, I wasn't as focused. Now, I'm more efficient. The knowledge I have a break coming where I know I'll be giving my family my undivided attention helps motivate me through the day.

[seiferteric]

How do we know the sleep deprivation isn't the cause of the shrinkage? Not everyone's experience is the same, but ours was pretty bad for the first 6 months or so. Even now at 18 months we wake up usually once a night. I would not be surprised if this has an effect on my brain. That being said, I do feel my brain was "rewired" in a sense, that before I was not a baby person at all, but now I do really appreciate not just my baby but others.

[serf]

>How do we know the sleep deprivation isn't the cause of the shrinkage?

I think that's a valid question -- one likes to assume that it's some adaptability trait, but the reality is that it could just as well be evidence of sub-standard conditions facilitated by the scenario.

[ska]

I think this isn’t really specific to having children - most people don’t become efficient until they have to. For many people the first time they have had strong enough time constraints is having children, but it might another family responsibility, a big outsidemof work commitment, or even a job or graduate degree in a high performance environment where you face sink or swim.

Nothing generates focus like “I have this exact 45 minutes to do X this week, or it isn’t going to happen”.

For good and Ill, I suppose .

[nerbert]

Same here. I feel like by having obligatory daily deadlines and processes imposed on me every day, together with the sleep deprivation, made me 200% more focused on what really matters, what is a good process, see what can be improved and what is the core of each task I'm trying to achieve (definition of done).

[moltar]

Thank you for sharing. Exactly my experience as well. Laser focus post first child is in god mode.

[notch656a]

I became more productive, although less efficient. Kids really fuck with after-hours efficiency.

There's always the knowledge that if I fail to maintain a job, it is statistically associated with divorce, and that divorce is statistically associated with child support, and that child support is statistically associated with prison and revocation of passport/property/licenses keep me going. If I fail to be productive enough I will be tossed in jail, that wasn't really the case before. But unlike some other people, I lived an exceedingly free (and low-cost) life before children, often just being homeless and hitch-hiking around the country, fighting for foreign militia, spending months living in forest or hiking trails, etc.

[Aeolun]

Huh? I became much less productive, but much more efficient. Need to make the most of the two hours a day you have to yourself.

[brnt]

Where are you getting two hours a day for yourself? We have two hours a day between kid bed time and our own, and we spend it being exhausted or together (or else we'd be total strangers real soon). I'm happy to manage 2 hours a week.

[Aeolun]

After kids go to bed at 10’ish.

We spend all the weekend together, the week is for me-time.

[glitchc]

Sounds like a tough relationship. You’re more than a meal ticket, you know.

[cplusplusfellow]

> if I fail to maintain a job, it is statistically associated with divorce

But heaven forbid you expect your wife to keep up the pretenses set when you married her.

[cplusplusfellow]

The white knights in this thread downvoting me. Pathetic.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

As all of my friends start to have kids, I'm noticing that they are basically completely different people.

It's almost as if 90% of their brain is dedicated solely to making sure their children are safe and looked after. It's like - at any moment - they think their children could just spontaneously combust or something. And I'm not talking infants. These are like 3 & 4 year olds...

As a non-parent, this is so bizarre. We all grew up with parents that weren't perfect, and we all ended up just fine.

I'm not sure if this is what's always happened to people when they become parents or if it's something new.

But the complete irrationality of their constant fears - something MUST have happened to their brains.

[sharkweek]

I’ve got two ankle biters right now and I feel:

1) a little bit dumber than I used to be

2) a lot more tired than I used to be, even after a rare full night sleep

3) a lot less self serving than I used to be

4) a lot more anxious than I used to be (which was already pretty high). I definitely visualize the “worst case scenario” in every situation I’m in

5) (stealth edit in) a lot less career motivated than I used to be. I predict this returns when the kids are older but maybe not

All that to say: yes, my brain has definitely rewired itself.

Also I used to think parents whose kids were throwing a tantrum in the middle of the grocery store were doing a bad job but now I get it.

[defrost]

Kids will literally try anything as part of exploring the world and seeing what haapens - that's how they learn.

The first time they throw a tantrum to get something just walk away and don't buckle .. especially if it's in a very public place.

Avoid providing feedback that throwing a fit in public will bend you to their will and it won't happen much more.

[notch656a]

How do you "walk away" from a screaming toddler in public? In my experience the toddler will follow you to make sure they're screaming in your face. If they somehow actually do get separated, they'll go into an even worse meltdown from the separation anxiety and if someone sees you walk away from the child (in a meaningful way that would no longer let them scream in your face) you may get investigated from CPS.

Personally I don't indulge tantrums but that doesn't make them stop. I assume the child does it to punish me to try and make me feel as bad as they do, as she seems to understand the tantrum won't result in me actually doing anything. Like a tic-for-tac, not as a way to actually get something (she knows I don't give anything or really acknowledge a tantrum).

If you got a toddler to make tantrums 'not happen much anymore' I think either you have an exceptional child or they just grew old enough to grow out of it.

[defrost]

I have no idea what you do in whatever country you're in .. I personally have just told them I'll be in the next aisle and walked away.

It's worked fine with my own children, my grandchildren, and various nieces and nephews.

I agree that the the "not indulging" in tantrums doesn't make them stop on a dime .. but they peter out faster and anecdotally appear less frequently in the future.

It's good to have cool calm collected kids down the track so you can teach them to pull molten glass from a 1000C furnace when they're five, to use an angle grinder safely at nine, and start driving by ten.

None of these offspring of mine are exceptional BTW, they're kind of typical for rural WA (W.Australia).

[notch656a]

Good on you I guess. Appreciate the good faith advice.

I'm 100% sure my kid would just start ripping and destroying the items on the shelving in that aisle. And that if the child were seen unsupervised in the aisle, at best the kid would be taken to the front and at worst police would be called (my country, USA, is extremely paranoid about children which means even if you are not paranoid about your kid you have to be paranoid about CPS and the criminal charges).

At any rate I wish more places were mroe like rural Australia in that regard. Even relatively minor independence for young children is effectively illegal in much of the US.

[dspillett]

> 2) a lot more tired than I used to be, even after a rare full night sleep

I suspect any drop in cognitive ability is largely a symptom of this, not a permanent rewiring.

Many non-parents experience memory, concentration, computation, and anxiety problems, when operating under the pressure of low (or low quality) sleep.

[tylerc230]

There’s a lot of multitasking with kids which I don’t think is healthy for the mind. Also I never have quiet moments to reflect which is when I make connections, mentally piece things together etc.

[dspillett]

Is this where you tell me "bit it is worth it really" and I politely ask "really?" in a tone that suggests I'm never likely to believe that?!

[Auracle]

All hail the magical porcelain throne.

[barbazoo]

Lots of wisdom in here, thanks for sharing.

[iambateman]

As the parent of a three year old…I promise it’s more rational than you think.

Children that age have the _potential_ to do a lot of damage and no _foresight_ whatsoever. They literally cannot see the potential consequences of running into the street.

It’s fine to not understand, but please think twice about calling something you don’t understand “irrational.”

[clutchdude]

You would not believe what a 3 yo can do in the span of minutes, especially when they decide to try and do something they previously could not do.

There is a constant on-edge aspect where you find out in the span of a minute they can:

- open or climb over a gate to the stairs - reach on the counter to grab a glass jar - open a door by grasping the door knob

> we all ended up just fine.

It's probably once bitten, twice shy - every parent screws up and then remembers that one accident.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

Honestly at 3 & 4 children will do the wildest stuff and I wouldn’t be surprised a parent has a head on a swivel for stupid kid nonsense at that point, by 4 you have a bachelors degree in “my child will handle/eat animal shit for no reason”. Children at that age are not capable of rational thinking, emotional regulation, and have no real sense of danger or stakes.

[Waterluvian]

One of my favourite moments of fatherhood was at a playground this summer. Someone’s kid was doing something precarious on the monkey bars as I sat quietly with other dads minding our own business.

The girl began to wobble and myself and two other dads, without coordination or communication all instinctively began to lunge towards her (maybe 15 feet away).

We barely got two steps before we harnessed ourselves, noticed what happened and had a laugh. Then went back to being hermits.

I really felt like I was part of this ancient order. We didn’t know each other and yet we all understood each other.

[mehphp]

> I really felt like I was part of this ancient order. We didn’t know each other and yet we all understood each other.

I mean, we kind of are, right?

[notch656a]

You're a braver man than me. I never ever touch children I don't know (as a man), doesn't matter how compelling the reason. I assume no matter how good my intentions I will be sued / police called / crucified. Doubly so if it is a child of the opposite sex.

[shawnb576]

This is 1000% true and this thread really underscores now non parents simply cannot fathom parent behavior.

I couldn’t, I had these same ignorant ideas based on my fleeting, non-accountable contact with small kids.

Now let me tell you about the time my 10 month old, in the blink of an eye, managed to get a handful of her own poo into her mouth.

The struggle is real.

[angstrom]

I climbed 40ft up the outside of a silo without a ladder. Kids do the dumbest shit.

[cjohnson318]

Preparing every meal for your kids, getting them to and from daycare, negotiating over every single thing you ask them to do, doing dishes, doing laundry, fixing drywall, etc. it's a lot of work. You can't just roll out of bed, get to work, work all day, then come home and work or unwind or whatever like you used to; you're "on" all the time, for years, and you squeeze some work in when you can so that you don't have to eat cat food when you're older.

[germinalphrase]

“We all grew up with parents that weren't perfect, and we all ended up just fine”

Plenty of us didn’t.

[Waterluvian]

Love happened. And maybe that’s a purely physical thing like brain shrinkage or whatever.

I’ve loved before. But once my first came things were very different. It was a new kind of love. I suddenly had such a clear mission in life: protect and nurture this baby.

I definitely changed.

[makeitdouble]

Father here. Yes, it was the biggest change in my whole life. I could switch career and become a plumber it wouldn't be as radical.

If you don't believe in letting natural selection sort if you child will get past 2 yo, you 'll either recenter your whole environment and routines around the kid, or spend 90% or your time make sure they don't stab themselves with your antique knives collection or soldering iron.

Fo that for a few years and you won't be switching back to what you were before just because your kid can now read your phone password from your finger movements from across the room.

I think the same thing happens when you're looking after your elderly parents.

PS: > We all grew up with parents that weren't perfect, and we all ended up just fine.

I talked to my parents a while after my kids were out of the "let's gob anything that can fit in my face hole", and I also basically robbed a few years of their life where they basically frozr their career and couldn't do much outside of making sure we're not dying. Some parents forget how hard it was though (and it's normal. Your brain is really in a bad state all that time)

[uup]

Lots of people have already given you plenty of opinions, but I’ll add one more: I love thinking about my child. Making her life amazing and safe makes me feel good.

[lr4444lr]

You didn't know your parents before they became parents, and as a child, did not have the EQ anyway to read their personas. Also, a mobile and curious 3 or 4 year old is a LOT more stressful than age 0-1.

[drekipus]

As a new parent I would say that it's new. With the amount of stuff marketed to parents, constant social media, and people enjoying the spotlight/karma when they exaggerate a story, impossible to not have a concern.

"This pram needs to have suspension system. What if you got a pot hole too hard and the baby bounces out and hits the ground causing brain damage? Happened to a cousin."

I see this and push back on my wife almost every day (I don't have social media, so I'm blissfully unaware of what dangers lurk)

[artificialLimbs]

I have 'daydream'ish visions maybe weekly to monthly about my children (particularly the 4yo, less so the 1yo) being horrifically killed in various manners. Sometimes while I'm not even anywhere near them, but more often when they're in proximity. It's (mostly) completely irrational. Maybe the brain sees them doing so much dumb shit that you can't help but imagine the possibilities.

Never happened with other family/friends before.

[ekianjo]

3 years old can still put themselves in danger faster than you think.

[lahvak]

I must say that none of my kids ever managed to spontaneously combust, but it wasn't from lack of trying.

[gsatic]

It's not just the brain. Level of hormones change too in both mom and dad. Sort of a second puberty.

[dereg]

You'll get it when you have kids.

[StanislavPetrov]

Other than any sort of epigenetic change, and without any sort of clinical evidence whatsoever, I wouldn't be surprised if it was somehow linked with the almost universal sleep deprivation associated with having an infant.

[ianai]

Back pain and other chronic pains have been linked to decreased brain size too. My working understanding is brains change like the rest of us - both good and bad ways.

[rayiner]

The fuzziness is temporary, but it lasted at least a year per kid for me.

[rootusrootus]

I was going to say this. I did feel remarkably stupid for a while after each kid was born. But they're 10 and 12 now, and I feel back to 100%. They require a lot less constant supervision now, which I imagine has a lot to do with it.