[bufferoverflow]

What are you talking about? I watch FSD progress, and it's clearly getting closer to human level driving. Just go on YouTube and compare FSD from two years ago to the latest. It's night and day. Yes, it still makes mistakes. Humans make mistakes all the time while driving.

As for build quality, we haven't had any major problems with our Model 3. It's a great car.

Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.

[kaczordon]

The suspension on the model 3 and Y is definitely not luxury. Nor is the interior build quality. I own a model Y and there’s plenty of creaks and noises in it that other car models don’t have. Also the highway FSD is still ridiculously bad with it’s phantom braking where at 70MPH your car will just slam on the brakes. And highway driving is the easy version that most other manufacturers have now too.

And now it looks like Cruise and Waymo have full self driving in San Francisco which looks amazing. There’s hour long videos of it navigating perfectly and smoothly in a jam packed city. Nothing like the Tesla videos which show it almost slamming into bikes/curbs or just freaking out and stopping in the middle of an intersection.

Has great acceleration though and charging at home is great or on the road with superchargers. But Teslas edge is not as wide anymore.

[abc_lisper]

If phantom braking is reproducible, ie it happens at the same place and time(because sun angle) you should report it to Tesla. Or post a YouTube and link on Twitter. In 15k miles of mostly autopilot, I have had phantom brake happen once or twice. I’m in the Bay Area. It happened when it couldn’t tell wether the shadow of over cross bridge from a physical object. What is your experience?

[ohgodplsno]

>It happened when it couldn’t tell wether the shadow of over cross bridge from a physical object.

Who could have predicted that just relying just on cameras was not a good solution ? Definitely not the hundreds of researchers that told Musk that a LIDAR was necessary.

[abc_lisper]

Idk why people preach this a gospel. There are billions of living things, some of which ( peregrine falcon, cheetah etc)do high way speeds and do fine relying on optics. The only animals that rely on sonar are those that live in the dark. There are insects with pea brains which rely on vision. I’m not saying it is proof that only vision works, but to argue against it requires more than platitudes.

[kaczordon]

They have two eyes close together that do tracking of depth. Plus they have ears and touch, multiple types of sensor synthesis that the Tesla doesn’t even come close to having with a plain old video camera.

[abc_lisper]

Tesla cars do depth tracking with cameras. How else does it know to slow down when the car infront of it stops?

[klyrs]

Does it work in rain, snow, and/or night? How about country roads and roads without clearly marked lanes or misleading lane lines?

It's like hiring a plumber who can only flush toilets, not install them. Self driving in pristine conditions is a party trick. Until it can do the hard part, it's nowhere near human-level.

[cma]

At autonomy investor day they were saying better than a human in all human drivable conditions by 2020 for the robotaxi network they said they would launch then. They confirmed they meant level 5 autonomy in answer to a direct question.

They knew dojo wouldn't be online by then and they didn't even really train on video at that point, just trying to judge the scene image by image instead of taking into account prior frames (like knowing someone walked behind a bush 1p frames ago, so that sliver of emerging leg from behind a bush that might not be detectable confidently enough from a single image should be weighted higher).

[Geee]

FSD handles those situations well, compared to Waymo etc, because FSD doesn't depend on pre-mapping. Waymo depends on pre-generated 3D maps and it fails if there's a discrepancy. That's why Waymo works only on small areas and uses cherry-picked routes.

See this example, where the map data is completely wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gTV9SlutU0

[quantified]

Compared to anything else that also doesn't work, ok. But that is not the yardstick to apply, is it?

Does it actually work in the real world is the yardstick to apply.

[enragedcacti]

YouTube can't provide enough information to make a determination about the reliability of a safety critical system. The video that ends up posted could be the best result of multiple attempts and many of the "testers" use hints like pressing the gas pedal or hitting the turn stalk to give the system more confidence in maneuvers that it's otherwise having trouble with. Further, many users who post bad experiences get negative feedback from their audience and sometimes even delete the video and DMCA people who re-host it.

Beyond the problems with YouTube as evidence, its very clear that Tesla isn't operating a proper safety lifecycle as part of the beta and its not clear that their approach and their current hardware is even capable of solving the remaining problems with FSD. Having already sold the hardware as FSD capable, Tesla has created a problem where the hardware drives the validation process of the system, rather than validation process driving the hardware. This is a fundamentally unsafe approach to safety critical systems.

[davewritescode]

The "media problem" is completely earned by Tesla. You know how you avoid bad press? By consistently under-promising while over-delivering and bending over backwards to keep your customers loyal and happy even after they've handed over their money so that when they need a new car they return to you.

German automakers are a great example of this. Whether it's gas or electric they significantly understate the performance and efficiency of their cars while in the real world they always exceed what they've promised.

[salawat]

Until Dieselgate at least.

[davewritescode]

Yeah, was mostly talking about the German luxury automakers which is the market Tesla is trying to compete with most directly.

[the_mitsuhiko]

Maybe it’s getting closer but a lot of people bought this thing for their own cars, never getting access and some already sold the cars again.

[Geee]

> Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.

Similar to Apple, people expect more from them than anyone else. Minor issues on Apple products are always scandals. Remember Antennagate? People were sure that it would sink Apple, because "they don't know how to make antennas". People and media handle Tesla similarly, and minor issues are blown out of proportion.

[sudosysgen]

Tesla promised Level 5 autonomy in all conditions by 2020. People paid a lot of money based on that promise.

[Geee]

Yeah, the timeline was over-promised. That's a different issue.

[sudosysgen]

It's the same issue. There is no double standard. Taking advance payment and being 5+ years late is something any company would get massive criticism from, if not sued.