[eafkuor]

> If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical vacation, etc. it makes me feel... good? Those are good things in general, although the tropical vacation might make me also feel concerned about the climate.

If this would be your genuine reaction, congratulations. You belong to the 0.001% of the population that would feel this way.

[tappio]

I feel content with my life and I'm genuinely happy when my friends accomplish something. I can't remember when I was seriously envious last time. Sometimes, there may be a moment when I feel slight envy, but then I realize that they decided to put effort into that, and I put my effort into something else. Time is limited. Everyone has problems; ups and downs.

I've mostly quit social media because the majority of active people are not interesting, it's full of ad-garbage and heated up debates about dis-interesting topics.

I guess I'm also in the 0.0001%. Though, I do think it's much higher than that. The dissatisfied people are just the most vocal.

[ss2003]

Hacker News is social media

[sodality2]

It's a news forum. Only loosely does it fit in "social media". Would you call reddit.com/r/technews or alike a "social media"?

[madeofpalk]

...yes. Reddit is a social media website. HN is a small, niche social media website.

[sodality2]

Okay, I suppose going by the strict definition of "social media", it does. The study cites "Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok" as examples, however.

Do you believe there is a fundamental difference between these sites, and something like HN (despite both being social media)? I feel like there is. I know this might come off as "I use the superior, intellectual site" or something like that (even though I use the other sites occasionally). But reading tech-related news and comments about it feels very different than scrolling through funny videos on TikTok.

I don't mean to say HN is any better in terms of mental health than either of the others - I spend more time on it than I really should. But I never leave it feeling depressed or jealous like I do on more common social media: I always feel like I learned something rather than watching a meme I'll forget in 30 seconds.

[sorry_outta_gas]

yes

[tappio]

I agree. I actually pointed out in another comment that the term social media does not make any sense. Everyone has a different definition of social media. We can't really generalize findings on all platforms. The studies focusing on social media are often missing that it does not really make any sense to use that word. Are Twitter and Facebook the same? Can we generalize findings on one to another? No we can't. Talking about "social media" this way does not make much sense. It also hides out the fact that in the end everything is about the internet and digital content, together forming the new mass medium which is actually the relevant unifying factor. I'm glad you picked that up!

[rmbyrro]

Come on folks, calling social something as nerdy as HN is hell of a stretch...

[mitchdoogle]

Nerds are some of the most social people - they love talking to other nerds

[cortesoft]

Are you sure it is that rare? I find it shocking that most people don't feel joy when the people they care about are happy. My assumption is that depressed people would feel worse, but people who are generally happy themselves would feel happy when someone else is feeling happy.

Where do you get your assumption that only 1 in 100,000 people are happy for others? The fact that there are at least two people who feel this way commenting in this chat seems to imply your numbers are off. I don't think the percentage of depressed people in the world is that high.

[laputan_machine]

If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them? I don't believe that puts me in the minority of people, not a chance.

[sdevonoes]

> If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them?

We can feel happy (for them) and unsatisfied (with ourselves) at the same time. Multiply that by N, and well, that's a recipe for disaster (at least for me). I know, I know, we shall not compare ourselves with others, but hey, I'm not a machine, I have my imperfections which I am polishing from time to time, but in the meanwhile social media makes everything worse in average (for me).

[prawn]

I travel more than average so I am happy seeing friends going on trips. It's rare that their trip looks better than what I've just done or have planned next. But I could absolutely see how someone might spectate a feed full of holidays and feel from the aggregate like everyone else is constantly travelling, while they grind away at work.

[cableshaft]

Meanwhile my family's barely travelled the past three years due to Covid concerns, tighter budgets (wife's income got severely impacted from the pandemic for a while, while this year we had to unexpectedly pay a good vacation's worth of taxes), and having to use PTO for other unrelated things. Most I've done is a few weekend trips to neighboring states.

[malauxyeux]

Since this is about the effect of social media on mood, I'll chime in to say that it's the opposite for me.

Seeing people conspicuously consume extravagant leisure travel – and the associated resources – brings to mind global warming and how few people actually give a damn about it in any meaningful way.

It also reminds me of what brazen liars many people are. In cases where I've known the people posting Facebook/Insta content about their amazing trips, in about half of those, the reality is that the trip was far less than amazing than their posts would suggest.

As an example, one woman I know took her family across the Pacific to Thailand on a two-week vacation. By their accounts, they had a pretty rotten time, even considering moving their return date forward. But, the Facebook narrative was glowing. Four years later, the woman's Facebook cover photo is of a Thai Buddhist temple from that trip. (She's not a Buddhist. The photo is purely for aesthetics and social signaling.)

It seems to me that this kind of behavior feeds into a loop that encourages other people to consume finite resources and then post about their "amazing" (though often non-amazing) trips. And so the cycle continues.

And that really gets me down. I don't go on Facebook very often.

[k_sze]

One could be “happy”* for a friend and also feel shitty about themself.

“Damn. Matthew has changed jobs 3 times in the past 5 years already, each time to a better paying job. Look at you. You’re still stuck in this shitty job because you suck.”

This is literally the kind of thought I have had in the past.

[*] Are you “happy” in a polite way? Or are you genuinely happy?

[laputan_machine]

Genuinely happy, of course! I want to see my friends and family succeed in life and enjoy it. I don't feel like a lesser person in any way, I feel proud of them.

[johnnymorgan]

You've never felt Envy towards someone?

I kind of find that hard to believe.

that was all OP was referring too and it's well documented. Honestly you come off as dishonest in this convo as it's quiet a normal emotion to feel and it's not negative per say, it can lead to negative actions but can also push people to do better.

"It doesn't matter if the slight is real or not, its the perception of the person that matters" -- Jimmy Hoffa

[laputan_machine]

I've never felt envy towards my friends and family. No, never. I find it bizarre that you do.

I never said I don't feel envy. You jumped to conclusions based on a very little sentence I wrote.

I currently have a very severe skin condition, and I live in a country with 'free' healthcare. I am envious that some people get medical treatment for it and can live a normal life again and some people do not (such as myself).

I don't give a shit if you think I'm dishonest, you do not know me.

[sdevonoes]

> I find it bizarre that you do.

Why? Feeling envious is just human nature. Sure, one can argue that in our current society that kind of feeling is "bad", and we should "fix it". I tend to agree, but that you find it bizarre, it's bizarre to me :D

Oh well, maybe you are a machine (based on your nickname), so yeah, machines do not have imperfections (just kidding).

[mitchdoogle]

Suppose you tell a friend about a job you're applying to, they think it sounds nice, so they apply too and they get the job and you don't. You're not jealous of that?

Or maybe your brother and you have a crush on the same woman. He asks her out and they start dating. You aren't jealous.

Or just suppose you always wanted something at home, a hot tub, a big screen tv, a walk-in closet, a home office, whatever, and you find out your friend has the thing - you'd be envious right?

It seems like you're confusing being envious of someone as a negative feeling towards them, which is why you're getting caught up on the friends and family aspect. It shouldn't matter if it's friends and family - they are often the people you know the most about so you'll find out if they do/have something you want. If you let your envy turn to anger and contempt, that's the negative part, but you don't have to - that's just having a healthy perspective and self-control

[sean_the_geek]

If you feel truly happy about someone else but at the same time not let it reflect on you, then I would say you are minority. The first part of my sentence is achievable and is genuinely positive , at least in a way. The second part - not letting it reflect on you - is IMO most people struggle.

[amelius]

What kind of therapy is recommended to get into this state of being?

[tappio]

Sorry, it's only available for 0.0001% of population and unfortunately you are not one of the lucky ones.

Fortunately, empathy and epistemological pluralism can make your life bearable.

[orzig]

Take it or leave it, Metta meditation is pretty squarely aimed at that. I’ve had only the tiniest bits of success, but trying a book/video/app is a ton cheaper+easier than therapy!

[sanitycheck]

I'd feel exactly the same way as you about that, and if we truly are in a tiny minority perhaps that does explain a lot about the world.

[dwringer]

Superbia versus invidia, I suppose.

[dwringer]

Indeed, it's even possible to be genuinely happy for someone but still feel inferiority and discouragement when trying to compare aspects of one's own life with others.

It's great that not everyone struggles with that, but different people struggle with different emotions. Maybe we can all agree that whatever their nature and whatever we call them is beside the point, (I think) that social media engagement optimizations have notoriously exploited these effects as they relate to our attention and habits, taking many people on an unwanted emotional roller-coaster ride for arguably unhealthy amounts of time.

[grapeskin]

I had that feeling. It pushed me to move to something better recently after stagnating for years.

It’s an ambivalent feeling. I was definitely stressed for months thinking about how much worse my life is as a consequence of comparing myself to someone else. But at the same time, I’ve lifted myself up to a higher standard since that stress turned into motivation. That friend who I felt envious of is also happy for my success, and I’m also happy for his.

[SyzygistSix]

That invokes the possibility for a better future for me as well. "Oh cool, a strategy that I can perhaps use to improve my life."

[chenxi9649]

I don't think you're in the minority either. We experience joy from the joy of those around us.

I think the disagreement here mostly stems from a different definition of "friend". For most ppl, the friends they see on their FB/IG feed aren't actually "friends"... but more like acquaintances. Often times they're people that you've only met a few times and haven't seen in many years.

Though, even with close friends, sometimes one can't help but compare. And since social media only highlight the highlights, you'll naturally feel bad when comparisons happen.

Seems that with apps like BeReal/Locket taking off in the GenZ market this is starting to shift a little.

[id]

But even when it comes to acquaintances, when I hear about their great new job or vacation, I don't feel envious or bad. I compare myself to other people, yes, and of course I'd like to have some of the things I see, but not to the point that I would feel bad. Does every story about someone being successful make you feel bad? I doubt it, as that is not my personal experience at all.

[clausewitz]

You keep grouping envy with inherently negative mindsets. Sometimes envy is just envy. As in, "damn, John is married with kids and a great job, and I'm still single and scraping by, I gotta get my shit together". I am not upset that John has these things, I am happy my friend John is happy. It also served as a reminder of what I want for myself, and thus, my envy is a motivator.

[id]

This is not envy in my opinion. You are not upset, you are happy John is happy, where is the envy exactly? You recognizing that he has something you don't?

[bennyp101]

An actual friend then sure, but most people I know have like 500+ “friends” so I think people are less likely to have that reaction to everyone in the timeline.

[laputan_machine]

Oh I see yeah we're couched in the language of FB. I meant real friends, I noped out of most social media (ex. HN) in 2017. I don't miss it!

[bennyp101]

Same (apart from a fake FB profile so I know what's happening in the local village groups).

I never really had a problem with FB, just the constant cringy posts made me leave!

But dumping Twitter a couple of years ago was the best thing I ever did - it was just making me angry every time I started browsing it!

[weatherlite]

A lot of this depends on how one's life is going. It is easy and natural to be genuinely happy for others when you are satisfied with your own life. But if I became unemployed and my friend got into Google then yeah...happiness level will be limited. There is a sound evolutionary explanation on why that is so.

[id]

This sure plays a big role, I agree. Maybe I would feel some envy in that example, but I would also not let it consume me, and still feel happy for my friend at the same time.

[tdudzik]

I think you can feel great for them and bad for yourself at the same time

[emteycz]

But why would I? It's not like they took something from me. I am the lord of my destiny.

And how is it in any way different from the same people telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social media has anything to do with this.

[coldtea]

Social status and the satisfaction (or lack thereof) derived from it are relative. This has been studied and hammered on again and again, not to mention the entirety of human history (and tons of lucrative rackets) attest to it.

And being "the lord of your destiny" is already not applicable to most people, except in an abstract, meaningless sense that a person can always decide for themselves. That doesn't mean they can wish reality away. (E.g. "Yeah, I have $200K in student debt, no job prospects after looking for 10 months, and my spouse got sick, but I can do whatever I decide").

[emteycz]

If these people think they're the only ones with problems and other people's lives are problem-free, well that's the issue. Not even the most accomplished person has a smooth ride.

[coldtea]

That's kind of the whole point: social media presents you with a highlight of the smooth ride scenarios in people's lives (and even those, made to appear even fancier with all kinds of tricks and cutting out of "behind the scenes" context).

And rationally being aware of this doesn't help either: you still get the raw first experience at an emotional level.

[alickz]

>But why would I? It's not like they took something from me. I am the lord of my destiny.

Envy. You can be genuinely happy for them, but then be sad that your life isn't going as well. I think this compounded by the idea that a lot of people don't feel like the lords of their destiny, more leaves in a river unable to fight the currents.

Which of course adds to the stress of "Why can't I be better and more like [friend]?". Which may or may not lead to productive self-reflection (more likely not in my experience)

>And how is it in any way different from the same people telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social media has anything to do with this.

Scale, I would imagine. If it was one or two friends I think it's easier to rationalise, but when you see friends-of-friends and celebrities "living their best life", every day, while you struggle to keep your head above water, it takes a toll.

[k_sze]

Maybe you’re lucky to not be plagued by inferiority complex and/or impostor syndrome.

[emteycz]

Perhaps, but then why blame social media and not these disorders?

[k_sze]

I believe the argument would be that social media exacerbates the problem.

[mojzu]

Personally I'm happy when good things are happening for family, friends and other people, but depending on my mood it can also trigger feelings of FOMO/anxiety (why isn't that happening for me, what am I missing, etc.). My guess is depending on the person and their current state that falling into a pattern of focussing on the latter rather then the former is easier when using social media. Which can then be a bit of a vicious cycle because cutting yourself off from social media may also mean you miss events that you could have participated in

[luxuryballs]

Yeah I’m with you, I think the response itself might be an indicator of a certain personality type or if negative then a clue of unhealthy thinking habits.

[conjectures]

Yeah, tbh 'friends' are people for whom, when good stuff happens to them I feel happy about that.

[jtbayly]

“Every time a friend succeeds, I die a little.” Gore Vidal

This is not a rare feeling.

[ycombinete]

I once heard someone say, "nothing in life hurts more than the success of a friend"

[SyzygistSix]

That is a truly warped mindset.

[weatherlite]

Most of us commenting here live in competitive, capitalistic societies and a lot of our sense of self worth and self esteem comes from comparison (mostly comparing to our friends, colleagues and siblings) - and the metrics as we all know are stuff like career/money and other social status metrics. Feelings of envy are completely involuntary btw so there is no need to pretend like feeling them or not feeling is some kind of moral virtue - you don't control what you feel or don't feel. It sounds reasonable to me to speculate that these feelings have an evolutionary basis - e.g when you were envious of your neighbor's cave you felt crappy and worked harder on your own cave, thus increasing your own survival rate and the prevalence of envious genes. We are a biological creature designed for survival and envy seems very important to me in achieving it.

Does that mean we have to be slaves to our genes? I hope not. People like Sam Harris and others offer all kinds of methods to detach and "win" over our biology.

[throwawaycuriou]

While feelings may be involuntary, this does not mean we are beholden to them. Maybe envy is what happens when a consciousness is discontent and allows these feelings to overpower.

[weatherlite]

envy: "a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck"

So it's just a feeling. What you do with it (actions) is up to you, most people don't act upon those feelings in any noticeable way.

But if we are being honest with ourselves constant feelings of envy often do lead to a deteriorating relationship (usually in the form of the person feeling envious choosing to distance himself from whomever he's feeling envious of), simply for the fact that feeling envious feels like crap - and when you are feeling envious of a person you actually care about it feels double crap (you feel envious and guilty at the same time).

[abnercoimbre]

This is a profound insight. What do you do if you know someone is distancing themselves from you out of envy? (And what do you do if you're the one with the envy?)

Is the answer generally just "it is what it is?" That's so dark.

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

I sincerely do not believe that this behavior is genetic. As you've said, many of us live in competitive capitalist societies, we are conditioned into a socipathic mindset by advertising, and educated to reduce the people in our lives to numbers on a spreadsheet. This is not how humans are meant to function, we have been conditioned and trained to think this way.

[weatherlite]

It is exacerbated by our current system for sure but I think the core of it is still there, genetically. I say that because I remember my old dog would act up if I petted the cat sometimes. Also very young toddlers show envious behaviour when a sibling is born.

[bell-cot]

If true, it seems easy to optimize for your own happiness (or lack of hurt) by replacing more-likely-to-succeed friends with less-likely-to-succeed ones...

[sleepdreamy]

Agreed. Majority of people are jealous creatures. It's embedded into American individualism/Capitalism.

It's an end sum game of who can acquire more money/resources if we break away all the bullshit.

I don't share my wins because the majority of people are jealous creatures