[bradleyjg]

Somehow Gen Z gets a free pass to refer to everyone as they, regardless of that fact that some of us would rather not be referred to that way.

The norms are not as straightforward as you claim.

[nicoburns]

I have taken to referring to everyone as "they". It's much easier than trying to remember individual pronouns for everyone. It doesn't really seem reasonable to me for people to be bothered by this. Your view is that people must refer to your gender when speaking about you?

[bradleyjg]

It doesn’t seem reasonable to me for people to get offended if I use the pronouns that best match the gender presentation I see. This is what English speakers have been doing since there have been English speakers.

But there are people out there that tell me it is bothersome. Out of respect, I modify how I speak and write. Why shouldn’t I get the same courtesy?

[thesuperbigfrog]

>> I have taken to referring to everyone as "they". It's much easier than trying to remember individual pronouns for everyone. It doesn't really seem reasonable to me for people to be bothered by this. Your view is that people must refer to your gender when speaking about you?

What is the point of specifying pronouns then? Isn't this just a lazy form of misgendering?

Instead of using someone's name you could just refer to everyone as "Hey You", but that seems discourteous and disrespectful. Why not just use their preferred name and pronouns?

[nicoburns]

> Isn't this just a lazy form of misgendering?

No, because "they" isn't gender-specific. It's not referring to someone by the wrong gender, it's not referring to them by their gender at all.

> What is the point of specifying pronouns then?

I'd argue that there probably isn't much point. Why do we refer to people by their gender? No idea. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[bradleyjg]

No, because "they" isn't gender-specific.

When used as a singular it’s the pronoun for people that identify as non binary. You are absolutely misgendering people but you get a free pass because contra fosefx this whole pronoun thing is about power and who has it, rather than universal respect.

[nicoburns]

> When used as a singular it’s the pronoun for people that identify as non binary.

It can be used for this, but it's also used for someone of indeterminate gender or if you simply don't want to mention their gender. For example:

"Oooh, that's such a beautiful baby, are they a boy or a girl"

"Does your friend want to buy my phone? You said they were interested?"

[bradleyjg]

But I am not an unknown person. If you know who I am and you’ve had an opportunity to see my preferred pronouns but choose to disregard those preferences you’ve misgendered me the same as if you’d referred to a transwomen as he.

[thesuperbigfrog]

>> this whole pronoun thing is about power and who has it, rather than universal respect.

That is my point.

If I provide my name and preferred pronouns, if you respect me and my wishes, why not use my name and preferred pronouns when addressing me or referring to me?

Using "they" when I don't want it as a pronoun is misgendering.

[mcronce]

How is this a gen Z thing? Singular "they" has been around as a gender-neutral pronoun for, literally, hundreds of years.

[bradleyjg]

This is a commonly made point, but is misleading. The historical usage is for a hypothetical or unknown referent not a specific, known person.

Furthermore, generic he has also been around for hundreds of years. So we should keep using that too, right?

[mcronce]

> This is a commonly made point, but is misleading. The historical usage is for a hypothetical or unknown referent not a specific, known person.

This seems less like a material distinction and more like something that transphobic people would bring up to support their ideology.

> Furthermore, generic he has also been around for hundreds of years. So we should keep using that too, right?

My point was that it isn't new or somehow "a gen Z thing", not "all old things are good"

[bradleyjg]

transphobic people transphobic people would bring up to support their ideology

No one has said anything about trans people, we were talking Gen z butchering the English language. Also, is it a disorder (“phobic”) or an ideology? Or do you not understand that distinction either?

[mcronce]

Transphobia, much like homophobia, refers to an ideology, not an actual fear. Nice try getting on your prescriptivist high horse, though.

[tomrod]

It sure would be great if English could be simplified to remove gendered pronouns.

In Tagalog, it/she/he is a simple word, "siya" (pronounced "sha" if said quickly).