[zanzibar735]

This is extremely common. In their 30s, people get married, have kids, and move to the suburbs. Finding and keeping friends in your 30s is quite a challenge.

Some tips:

- move to a city - things are much much easier in a city as people are more transient, groups aren't as established, and new people arrive all the time

- it sounds like you have some friends - ask them if they have any friends in your area you should meet platonically

- the easiest way to make friends is an activity: you mentioned a hobby, but it can be anything - a running group, the gym, board games, etc. The more non-nerdy, the more likely you are to find non-nerdy people

- if you're like me, you struggle to make friends because it's not "easy" like it was in college. Friends in your 30s take work: reaching out, texting, scheduling, planning, etc.

- it sounds like you're not in therapy. So let me be the first to tell you that you're depressed (that "apathy" you're feeling is depression). Which is fine, it happens us all. But go to therapy because that's how you solve that. Just try it for a month, no pressure.

[Eric_WVGG]

I’ll second the city bit. Your experience sounds very much like my existence in not-really-a-city Portland, OR. I moved to NYC and everything about my life got better fast. The only quirk is that COVID kneecapped socializing badly, that’s either temporary or civilization is doomed /shrug

[selimthegrim]

I fled to New Orleans from Portland after two and a half years of that shit and never looked back.

[abdabab]

From a visitor’s perspective Portland seems cool and hip. What actually goes wrong when you live there?

[syntheweave]

While I haven't lived in Portland, when I visited in 2019 I was like, this is a larger Santa Cruz. And I have lived in Santa Cruz so I can make some extrapolations:

* Stifling lack of local prospects; in SC, the majority of jobs were "over the hill" (SJ/SV) making it a bedroom community. Portland has a little more going on for itself but it doesn't have the strong jobs pull of a city like Austin, which Portland has often been compared to in the past.

* Isolated city. If you leave Portland you reach rural farmland relatively quickly compared to larger US metros, which have a cluster of coties SC as noted has some distance to the city, but also proximity to farms east around Watsonville. SC being a college town with a major university contributes to the difference, bringing in a wider young demographic. In both cases this contrast and close proximity enables a dynamic of "city vs country", which exploded in Portland in 2020's protests with aggressive displays and a fatal shooting.

* Ethno-nationalist legacy: Portland was designed to be whites-first and only reversed on that relatively recently. California harbors some of these sentiments, but mostly not as strongly. It adds a layer to the culture that, while not always blatancy obvious, makes it feel more insular.

[treis]

IMHO, you missed the biggest point: Lack of sunshine. Outside of summer, it's mostly cloudy, coldish, and generally dreary weather.

[dominotw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBUxZdWJ_zE

[selimthegrim]

Portland State is an OK, not great university to boot.

[tim333]

I stayed there a bit and there isn't so much of a single people meeting up type thing. A lot of people stay home, go shopping go home. There was much more of an events happening meet people vibe in NYC.

[bufferoverflow]

New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country. It's not a safe place.

[brendoelfrendo]

You misread - they fled to New Orleans from Portland, they weren't trying to get away from the murder rate.

Besides, NOLA is fine. Murders aren't evenly distributed; there are plenty of perfectly safe spots and lots of safe activities to do.

[selimthegrim]

In 2019 they were at at all time low. I’ll still take it over Portland where people treat me like I don’t exist or as a means to an end.

[sshine]

I’ll take “treat me like I don’t exist” over “make me not exist” any day. ;-)

[Zanneth]

I visited Portland in late 2020 and I couldn’t believe how dystopian it became. It used to be such an amazing city.

[anon92387493]

RE: activity

This may sound crazy, but join a Crossfit gym.

Look on google maps, find one that is convenient, show up, talk to the coach, and sign up for a month.

Crossfit is instant community. And you will get fit and feel better about yourself while you do it.

Will it solve everything? Maybe not. But there's it's SUCH a simple way to make real progress on isolation, health, and self esteem.

There are a million other great activities and communities. Few are as easy to find and as consistently positive as Crossfit. (And it does't have to literally be "Crossfit" but if it isn't, then you are in a search mode, which leads to hesitation, reasons not to, and doing nothing.)

[mbreese]

I think this is a great idea. In a similar vein, they could also try a running club. There are running clubs everywhere and they look for people of all skill levels (your target could be a 5K, 10k, etc). There are smaller “pods” of people running at different paces, so you can always find a group that matches your skill level. They are also very encouraging and a good way to meet a variety of people. After-run drinks is also not uncommon.

But, with the CrossFit suggestion and this one, I think that the exercise component is just as important as the social aspects. Exercise can help just as much mentally as physically. The notion on a “runners high” is a real effect.

Being able to do it alone or in a group is also a bonus. I have run both with a club and by myself. You don’t have to wait for someone else to get started. You can join a gym or you can run outside. If you have running shoes, you can start today. (Okay, if you’re in the northeast, you might want to wait a few days…)

Another benefit to running — your coding will get better. Seriously. When you have time to stop and think more about a problem, away from the keyboard, problems get easier to solve. I’ve debugged several issues just by stopping and going for a run.

Finally the feeling of finishing a race — no matter the distance — is great. You don’t need to run in a race to get the other benefits, but it’s nice to have a goal.

[phant0mas]

Can't agree with this more. Training has really helped me put my emotions in check, and after a workout everything seems more clear. I have ended up going every day, and pretty much feel like a car hit me every day, but I have made so many friends just by having CrossFit as a common activity.

The other day, they even organized a hiking activity in the Parnitha mountains outside of Athens, and it felt like an adventure. It's a great community to be part of. My trainer even jokes I should be paying him a extra therapist fee.

Not to mention I met my, probably, future wife at the gym :)

[anon92387493]

@tenonyx - One important thing: start something THIS WEEK. The benefit of Crossfit, or a running club, or something like that is you can start immediately. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be where you end. It just needs to be a start.

I remember my own phase of loneliness and isolation. I remember sitting on the couch bemoaning my fate. Day after day. The same story. Then I finally took an action that literally changed my life.

The key was that I did something RIGHT THEN, as opposed to planning to do something or thinking about why something wasn't quite right.

Go start your journey of 10,000 miles. Do it now.

[tobmlt]

Great idea. Here is something that could be similar but more niche (sorry if too niche): join a meetup group for that does indoor rock climbing. If, say, meetup is a big thing where you are. Otherwise, check for, e.g. facebook groups that partner up climbers -- meet and learn! (likely need to take a class to learn the very basics first, assuming you know absolutely nobody and there is no meetup for it.)

More laid back: join a weekly bikes-with-lights social biking group. Weekly trivia, meetups at bars for tech people, new people to the area, karaoke, etc. Play to your strengths/likes. Run and hit the gym to boost social confidence (now I am back at crossfit ;). Learn how to dress up just slightly more than standard for any occasion (non exercise that is) if you don't already know.

It's easier to make friends outside of work if you build some structure or drive into your life beyond work. Become interesting by having interests. Whatever you choose to do, keep doing it and eventually you will meet like minded souls.

I wonder where OP is. Location might have a say in what's popular and help find a matching interest.

[Bhurn00985]

I appreciated your comment. Any pointers on where to learn how to dress slightly up for an occasion ? I just don't have an eye for it.

[tobmlt]

Hey thanks. Reddit could be your friend here. Well, honestly, youtube as well.

Here's a good, to the point summary of a lot of things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgH_9Iy7_mQ (lot's of good advice from this guy I think, I the fact that he's selling you on his channel doesn't put you off)

0.) dress just a little bit nicer than average. Do this by simply dressing for the occasion and most likely it will just happen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/bfxiqb/how_to_d...

1.) Wear clothes that fit

https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/ehrtv/sh... https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/1hr3nk/h...

2.) Wear a watch:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/2mkg05/rwatches_bu... https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1oawc3/meta_watche...

3.) understand when to wear what shoe

https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/p7usf/sh...

4.) Going out? Got a date? Wear a blazer:

https://suitsupply.com/en-us/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNe1dkaTfg0 (youtube, content starts at 2:06 or so. this guy wears more snickers than I'd be comfortable with, but it's fine for him, and yeah, anyway, some good ideas there)

Also critical, no how a suit should fit, tie your ties, etc. Reddit it all over this stuff so google reddit with your particular question and you should be on your way.

I hope that helps!

[postcynical]

Agree. Crossfit benefits IMO:

The Crossfit WODs, a very physically intense workout, at the end everyone usually has a runners high and is sort of relaxed, has a similar effect on me like drinking with others.

The pain shared from fighting through grueling WODs with others creates great bonds/cameraderie, similar to those marches in the military service. Go through a few hero wods together and you develop great trust.

Endless small talk possibility with other crossfitters. Everyone loves to enthusiastically chat about exercises, the last few wods, etc. And immediate connection, like if u studied at the same university.

Last point applies to other sports as well, but IMO, it's a lot stronger with crossfit.

[gonzo41]

This is good advice, also if it doesn't work, you'll be so tired all of your problems will be gone because you'll be sleeping or trying to eat enough to keep up.

[mvcatsifma]

+1 to CrossFit. It pulled me through the birth of my youngest daughter, three job switches in a fairly short amount of time and the pandemic. Like others have said, it will not solve all your problems, but it will definitely make you feel better about yourself.

I actually came to CrossFit through reading Tucker Max's book "Mate" (ISBN-10: ‎0316375365) which I also recommend you read. Good luck brother.

[tootie]

There's a 1000 similar options. Ballroom dancing, martial arts, bird watching, D&D. Most are happy to have new recruits.

[yeeetz]

Yeah those all sound nice in theory but those activities way more likely to be populated with other weird lonely overthinker types like OP. Do stuff that normal people actually do, not what internet people think normal people do.

[ethbr0]

> not what internet people think normal people do

As internet people debate in a lengthy thread about what normal people do. :-)

[sshine]

> stuff that normal people actually do

Have kids?

[austhrow743]

I would be highly skeptical that most people in their 30s doing ballroom dancing and bird watching are normal. I know you're just making stuff up with the D&D inclusion.

[tootie]

Those were just example. Any big city is bound to have thousands of groups like these and you'll have to find one that fits. And even being with other lonely nerds can be stimulating enough to blunt depression enough to get you moving. If you just assume everything in the world sucks and to not even try then that's how you get lonely.

[horns4lyfe]

Bird watching? Ballroom dancing? This has to be a joke, I’ve never met a single person under 60 that does either of these

[legerdemain]

I don't know about bird-watching, but ballroom dancing is really big in computer science. It was really big in my CS department on the east coast 20 years ago, and it's really big at Stanford now.

As far as I understand it, software engineers in the Bay Area have two common hobbies: indoor rock-climbing at Planet Granite and ballroom dancing. I would never have guessed how common they are, but it is what it is. D&D is a distant third.

[chrisseaton]

> ballroom dancing is really big in computer science

Lol that’s the absolute polar opposite of what the OP wants. They want to get away from other engineers like them and to meet some different people.

[harambae]

>As far as I understand it, software engineers in the Bay Area have two common hobbies: indoor rock-climbing at Planet Granite and ballroom dancing

also kiteboarding

[tarsinge]

I agree that this is a great start because of all the aspects it improve at the same time like you said.

[ip26]

The more non-nerdy, the more likely you are to find non-nerdy people

I'd also add the more "regular", the more likely you are to find regular people. The stereotypical events & hobbies recommended for meeting people can unsurprisingly wind up chock-full of outcast-sorts who are also looking to meet people. If you want to find a real group, and a variety of ordinary folks, you want to expressly avoid all the sort of things Lonely Joe Developer would try.

(Nothing wrong with loner types, but a concentrated bunch of loners is not a great foundation for building a strong social group)

[tarsinge]

But why would you want to find regular people? Personally I had a very social life with regular people in my 20's, and in retrospect it was very superficial, and these people have become boring and having issue now making sense of their life. I am way more happier since I rediscovered and embraced nerdy hobbies in my 30's.

[FloNeu]

Upvote... I took up some new sports, but one of the things bringing me joy in my free-time is me rediscovering comic books and playing adventure games with my gf... (All the good stuff - currently monkey island series, previously toonstruck, discworld, Sam&max and all the Lucas arts stuff

[mdoms]

Yeah I often see people recommend board game groups for people like OP which is shocking to me. Take a look at the people attending these events. They're not what OP is looking for. Look for normies hobbies.

[drunkpotato]

I'm not sure why you don't think board game groups are a good idea. The attendees seem like a pretty good mix of people to me.

When I first moved to my current city, I joined one, and met a couple who became some of my best friends here. I never would have met them were it not for the group. I realize that not everyone will have the same experience, I just don't see why "recommend board game groups" is rejected as bad advice.

[freddie_mercury]

While there are plenty of perfectly fine boardgame groups, if you regularly read posts on the subject you'll find that a LOT of people have discovered that their local boardgame group is full of people who lack the social skills to make friends on their own to play boardgames with.

I agree with you that it isn't bad advice per se. But it should probably come with a warning that the local group might just be full of weirdos and to cut your losses if that seems to be the case.

[Haegin]

When I moved to Toronto I found a local roleplaying group and if possible that crowd has an even bigger set of people lacking certain social skills. Despite that, I met most of my friendship group in Toronto through the people I met at that group.

You don't go to the boardgame group because everyone there will be your ideal friendship candidate. You go to find a few people who you get on well with, then invite them over to your place or to some common ground for boardgames (or other mutually enjoyable activity) outside of the group and without the socially inept.

[tim333]

As a middle aged dev type who prefers pretty girls to middle aged dev types, film / acting events are kinda fun. You can even do an acting class and be an unemployed actor on the side like the rest of them.

[sshine]

This is called LARP’ing. A friend of mine does this. He also got a job as a bartender during weekends.

[EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK]

But normies' hobbies at that age are, as OP said, changing diapers and family picnics.

[ekianjo]

you dont give a depression diagnostic based on comments on the internet. and asking oneself questions about their future is not a sign of illness, its what conscious beings usually do.

[hashin]

Agree that depression diagnosis might be wrong. But the therapy is incredibly effective against all the symptoms he has described in details. Therapy is not just for depressed people. I have met different therapists and I was never diagnosed of clinical depression. However, I have faced many of the symptoms that he has described. It makes sense to meet a therapist (if he can afford it) and take their help. Also, in many Indian cities, therapists are generally a way to many social circles, for they act as aggregators. I think it is different in other places, but meeting a therapist (a good one) and taking professional help is the easiest and most preferable route when you hit a rut.

[R0b0t1]

Touting therapy as incredible effective is at least a little dishonest. I know very many people who saw no benefit from it despite great expense.

Think: If you see benefit from therapy are you not more likely to keep going?

[PakG1]

Honestly, a lot of people who see therapists do keep going. A friend put it to me this way: you're paying money for perspective and objectivity, and this is especially true for people in relationships. It also takes time and effort to find a therapist who is a good fit for you. If the therapist is not a good fit for you, then there will be little benefit.

Therapy has helped me anyway.

[R0b0t1]

I know, I'm pointing out that trains of thought similar to "I was unsure of therapy but liked it and kept going" are not going to be universal because maybe there is some underlying thing that makes you more likely to be helped by therapy.

Uncharitably I've seen this framed as something like "therapists only help people with simple problems."

[hamburglar]

> Touting therapy as incredible effective is at least a little dishonest. I know very many people who saw no benefit from it despite great expense.

When someone recommends therapy, just treat it like you would any other recommendation that doesn’t need to trigger a “that doesn’t apply universally!” response. Nobody is forcing anyone to do therapy. Many people find it helpful. Many people don’t. Still quite reasonable for GP to say “therapy helps” with an implied “in my opinion.”

[thelettere]

Except in this instance OP specifically mentioned therapy as advice he was not looking for. So it's odd and paternalistic if not downright rude that the #1 comment advises just that.

[hamburglar]

..among many other things. And they didn’t say they didn’t want therapy as advice, they specifically did ask for advice beyond therapy but that doesn’t mean they are going to be offended by someone saying “but also, if you aren’t in therapy, try it.” And calling this “paternalistic” when someone is saying they hate their life and is asking for advice is completely uncalled for. Your overly-strong anti-therapy stance is noted but it doesn’t really have anything to do with the OP and the commenter you are responding to.

[ekianjo]

> meeting a therapist (a good one) and taking professional help is the easiest and most preferable route when you hit a rut.

"Professional help" is not always positive. If you have internal issues to fix, external help may or may not be the right thing for you. There's absolutely no standard approach for this kind of things.

> a therapist (a good one)

So what they end up with a bad one, was that good advice?

[user_7832]

To add on to this on a somewhat tangential note, it's important to understand that there are other conditions that can also cause "depression-like" symptoms. Are you extremely disorganized, forever late, super messy and procrastinate all the time leading to disappointment with yourself and a general feeling of unhappiness due to missed potential? Congrats, (some of) those are classic AD(H)D symptoms. Autism can be mistaken for ADHD. ADHD can be mistaken for BPD. (And of course ADHD can be mistaken for depression).

It's important to understand the possibilities. Fortunately today with the internet it's easy to search for symptoms and go to a doctor, and I'd highly recommend that to OP and anyone else who thinks they might need it.

[bawolff]

I don't know about depression.

However, OP seems unhappy with their current life and is unsure how to fix it. Therapy often can help with that - its not just for depressed people.

[tim333]

Sometimes people are a bit depressed because their life situation is a bit depressing. It can be better to fix the situation.

[bawolff]

That is what therapists do (among other things)

[molyss]

The word « apathy » is a pretty important one, and that’s what they responded to. Depression is not necessarily accompanied with suicidal thoughts and dark feelings. For many depressed people, « apathy » is a pretty accurate description. So maybe that person is not clinically depressed, but the advice of mentioning the apathy to the OP’s PCP STILL STANDS, and the possibility of OP exhibiting signs of depression does too

[goodoldneon]

You could argue that their language was too definitive ("you're depressed"), but it was said to coax OP into seeking professional help. So it's all good

[zanzibar735]

Further ideas for activities:

- activism: go canvas for a politician you like

- charity work: lots of people down at the soup kitchen, the local thrift shop, etc

[ethbr0]

I cannot say enough nice things about volunteering at a soup kitchen, food pantry, or Habitat for Humanity. Somewhere where people who are not as economically or situationally fortunate as you go.

You'll feel better for doing good things for people who need good things.

And you'll also feel better because it'll give you a truer baseline to look at your own life. Are there things you want to change? Sure! But it's easy to forget what you've got, viscerally.

IMHO, a huge part of suburban malaise is losing touch with what the worst life problems look like. Which isn't to say your problems aren't valid or real! But is to say that "My life is all problems" happens a lot more when we've forgotten the possibility of not having a roof, food in the fridge, electricity and water on, etc.

[LouisSayers]

> go canvas for a politician you like

This one might be a bit tricky...

[wasnthere]

I mostly agree with zanzibar735 except I disagree with their depression prognosis — its loneliness imho and its a silent killer.

I firmly second their advice on seeing a therapist.

As you age “living your best life” will take different forms. You just have to stick with trying to “live your best life”.

Good luck and I hope this discussion here gives you some actionable advice that you can implement.

[tarsinge]

> The more non-nerdy, the more likely you are to find non-nerdy people

Just be careful what you are asking for. Non-nerdy people are becoming extremely boring in their 30's. I'm not sure why you would prefer discussing celebrities/sports results/car/superficial politics with good looking people instead of having a great time and connecting with people and not caring about how they look.

Hopefully you can find interesting (/nerdy in the sense they like to learn deeply and methodically about a subject) people in nearly every activity.

[jseban]

It's not about looks, it's about social skills. Can someone be friendly, make friends, make you feel good. Or are they awkward, unpleasant and weird.

[tarsinge]

Social skills are a large set. Being introvert/shy and awkward in large gatherings doesn’t mean you can’t be a good friend. That stereotype of geeks all being “asocial assholes on the spectrum” belongs to the previous century, I don’t know, maybe watch a few YouTube D&D games to update your views.

[giantg2]

"you're depressed"

Don't listen to this guy. Don't let people keyboard diagnose you. You can go falk to a therapist if you want an actual diagnosis (although you state that you don't, which seems fine to me).

[withinboredom]

I’d also add, go pay $45 to a real hair stylist and mention to them that you’re “new to the area” and looking to meet people. Hair stylists know an incredible number of people and many people use their hair stylist as therapy sessions. As long as you’re not creepy and you come across as a “normal enough” person, they’re more than happy to make some introductions or tell you where the cool people are.

[teaearlgraycold]

> getting into a group of "normal" friends, of both genders, to hang out and laugh with, seems like an impossible goal.

> So let me be the first to tell you that you're depressed

Yup. OP, sounds like you could do well with (and afford) tele-therapy.

[message]

BJJ is also fun hobby. Involves same pattern recognition as programming and builds comradery. Sometimes it’s fun to fantasize how you’d choke the hell out of the PM that annoys you :)

[eirikr]

Take a look at https://youtu.be/0BMKpodJidI