[srvmshr]

> It’s hard to accept the possibility that Judy may have completely forgotten about me, but a lifetime of living with disability has shown me how delicate human bodies and minds can be, how little it can take to dramatically, traumatically alter—or end—lives. Two rogue bones in my neck. Plaque on my beloved’s brain. Great love stories begin with such heady promise and end with such sadness and grief—but, at least in my case, also with memories of immense joy throughout a muscular marriage of two strong, supportive partners with challenges aplenty.

So poignantly expressed. I am usually skeptical of 'true love', but these kind of stories remind me I could be so utterly wrong. It is rare to find people as committed to each other as Judy & Steve.

[S_A_P]

True love is something that takes work. Sure some people mesh better than others, and if you picked your mate mostly on aesthetics you may realize that having someone you like to look at is not the way to sustain a multi decade relationship. I think when it comes to a partner, you have to just decide that you are always willing to meet them where they are. Its not always where you want them to be either. The flipside of course is that your partner should feel the same way and be willing to endure your ups and downs

[wnolens]

> you have to just decide that you are always willing to meet them where they are. Its not always where you want them to be

Wise, thanks. That very concisely captures what I've been coming around to understanding about having relationships with anyone. I've had it easy with best friends that were so similar (because we grew up together), but life is long(ish) and people change and grow apart. Even if you have a a relationship that is on easy-mode, it will change for a sufficiently long time-horizon (marriage).

[bmj]

The Christian theologian Stanley Hauerwas put it this way:

When couples come to ministers to talk about their marriage ceremonies, ministers think it’s interesting to ask if they love one another. What a stupid question! How would they know? A Christian marriage isn’t about whether you’re in love. Christian marriage is giving you the practice of fidelity over a lifetime in which you can look back upon the marriage and call it love. It is a hard discipline over many years.

[hahajk]

I had a girlfriend in high school/college for four years; I’ve been with my wife for over 15. Looking back on my high school relationship I can say I was in love, if I know anything about love from my marriage. The same feelings of interdependency and shared identity. It’s popular to look at young people and think they can’t know love but my experience says that’s not true.

[azekai]

I had a friend in high school whose romantic feelings were just absurdly powerful. Romeo never pined for Juliet the way my buddy Michael felt for his girlfriend. But at the risk of sounding trite, hormones =/= sacrifice, which is the real, meaningful expression of love. I don't want to lessen the importance of your earlier relationship, but puppy dog love is the easiest and most short-lived of affections.

[nefitty]

I love my wife a lot. She's like my shadow, evidence that the sun is in the sky.

If she got really sick I would stay with her and care for her. A huge chunk of that is because I'm attached to her, the little human pattern that the universe mumbles out. The other mind that looks at me and convinces me I actually exist.

I personally think it's irresponsible to set up these weird transcendental expectations. If anyone reading this has yet to fall in love or be in a long term relationship, it's all flowery and cute and lovey at first and then one day you fart for the first time in front of her. There's like, non-subjectively evident demands that you agree to impose on yourself when becoming a union. Physical. Social. Emotional.

I would not leave my wife if her mind was gone. Besides my irrational human attachment, I can't imagine putting my family, her family, our friends, through the experience of seeing her be abandoned by her life partner. Of having them experience evil unmask itself through the act of relegating her to a meat body, which we all are.

I don't know why I felt such a strong urge to express my cynicism. I don't believe in souls, I guess is part of it. I also don't like when people get hyped into expecting the universe from others. My wife loves me deeply, I feel it when she randomly puts her head on my shoulder or I catch her staring at me. She would also yell at me in embarrassment if I farted loudly next to her at the grocery store.

[diskzero]

My wife was diagnosed with lymphoma and brain cancer last December and passed this October. I watched her weaken, spring back when a therapy worked, descend into near death when a therapy failed and eventually see her mind and body destroyed by cancer. I hated the illness, the workload, the stress and then unending anxiety of knowing there was little chance of a recovery.

I never thought of leaving or not caring for her, just as I am sure she would have never left me if I was in the same situation. Was this because of a deep love, a result of thirty years spent building a life and habits together, civic and marital duty or some combination of all of these? The thought of not caring for someone in her situation so close to me is anathema.

Concerning diseases that reduce ones mental acuity; every time she would lose the ability to speak or understand, it was crushing. She would often regain some functionality, but each time something was lost. In her final days, she would sometimes regain consciousness and speak to me, but couldn't understand what she was saying. This is/was one of the most distressing things for me to experience. I often sit and wonder what it was she wanted to tell me and how I will never know.

[fjfaase]

My first wife died as a result of Early-Onset Alzheimer's Disease. From diagnoses till death was 12 years. A much slower process than yours, I realize, which gave me much more time to adapt to it and deal with it.

Before she stopped talking at all, she also had a period that she spook gibberish. I learned to just pretend to understand her, assuming that she meant something positive with her attempt to say something. I learned to read her face instead of her words.

In the last year her eyes would usually be dull and only now and then there would be a spark of light in her eyes that would not last longer than a second. I never wondered whether she still recognized me. I assumed that the concept of husband did not mean anything to her anymore. I am happy that I still recognized her till the end, because I know that some people with Alzheimer's Disease will change so much in their behavior that relatives do no longer recognize them.

We will never know what your wife wanted to say. Maybe the words that came out of her mouth were not even the words she wanted to say. Maybe you should take the fact that she attempted to talk to you as a sign that she was happy that you were with her at that moment.

[diskzero]

Thanks for the insight. I am sorry you had to endure such a long goodbye period. It was agony for me not to be able to talk with her at the end, but I do appreciate she tried to say something, and I am grateful for that.

[nefitty]

Jesus. There's no words. My heart breaks.

Thank you for giving us your thoughts. I hope to live up to the standard you set with the clearly towering love you shared with your wife. I'm dumb, young, unwise so I'll dare to presume: I am certain she would have told you how important you are to her, how much she loves you and how thankful she was that you shared your life with her.

Sorry, I try not to be emotional. Especially on a forum like HN where rationality and clarity of thought seem to be the M.O. Its impossible to imagine what you've gone through and what you're going through. I send you a huge, digital, hairy man hug my dude.

[diskzero]

Thanks for the insight. I like to think that you are right!

Thanks for the hug. It is much appreciated.

[susiecambria]

So very sorry to hear about your loss.

I choose to believe that your wife wanted to tell you how much she loved you and what a wonderful life she had with you.

Hugs from me and the dogs

[diskzero]

Thanks Susie. You must be right! That is what I am going to believe as well.

[testfoobar]

I am sorry for your loss.

[diskzero]

Thank you.

[captainredbeard]

So sorry to hear that, condolences.

[srvmshr]

Very well put. My remark about 'true love' was this exact cynicism. And like you, I mirror the exact same feelings for my wife. The Mills & Boone type of romances do not exist in real life. Deep love is crafted incrementally each day of being together, like an old oak tree sinking its roots ever deeper.

It is perhaps the gravitas and wordsmanship which makes the author's story remarkable. It exposed us to his thought process, and the minutaé of his feelings. As a thinking species, we perhaps appreciate this expressivity. These adversities are more common than depicted & many couples with disabilities do share meaningful time together.

[nefitty]

Yes for sure. I hope I did not diminish those experiences. It is really awesome to be in love. I understand its sway.

I appreciate how we almost reflexively communicate about those emotions in bits of poetry. They splay out in so many directions, it's like we're picking fruits from an orchard and showing each other what we discover. It's really nice to get to be in the orchard.

[gernb]

My 1st girlfriend's mom told me "never marry someone you can't fart in front of". My sister easily farts (and laughs) in front of her husband. In fact for Christmas he was given a plaque that says "I didn't fart, my ass blew you a kiss"

[smoyer]

Another great adage is "Don't marry the person you can live with ... Marry the person you can't live without"

[nefitty]

Hahaha that's the true love they don't make Disney movies about

[pomian]

I do not believe it is rare. I think that it is the same with bad news and tragedy, the news reports only those. Behind all the sad stories, the frustrated stories, and everything else that is loud, there is a quiet passion that supports the world. It quietly goes on, without disturbing the neighbors, or making headlines. It's not easy, it's not painful, but it perseveres. All around you. In the background.

[dijonman2]

I have heard about a man who remained unmarried his whole life, and when he was dying, ninety years old, somebody asked him, “You have remained unmarried your whole life, but you have never said what the reason was. Now you are dying, at least quench our curiosity. If there is any secret, now you can tell it, because you are dying; you will be gone. Even if the secret is known, it can’t harm you.” The man said, “Yes, there is a secret. It is not that I am against marriage, but I was searching for a perfect woman. I searched and searched, and my whole life slipped by.” The inquirer asked, “But upon this big earth, so many millions of people, half of them women, couldn’t you find one perfect woman?” A tear rolled down from the eye of the dying man. He said, “Yes, I did find one.” The inquirer was absolutely shocked. He said, “Then what happened? Why didn’t you get married?” And the old man said, “But the woman was searching for a perfect husband.”

Osho – The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha

[arcticfox]

Osho is just relating a fable here, but I love that guy's way with words. No surprise that his cult community (Rajneeshpuram) was a massive (albeit short-lived) success in my home state, he's just so fascinating to listen to. If anyone is curious, there are a lot of videos of him on Youtube.

From Wiki:

> Ultimately though, as an explicitly "self-parodying" guru, Rajneesh even deconstructed his own authority, declaring his teaching to be nothing more than a "game" or a joke.

Perhaps that's why, as an atheist, I find him so fascinating - he covers a lot of genuinely useful and interesting ground (meditation, philosophy) while never seeming to take it too seriously.

[baby]

This Osho really sounded like an idiot guru every time I tried to listen to him.

[jborichevskiy]

Beautifully put :) the background radiation of love

[rxhernandez]

I think the divorce rate starkly points in a different direction.

[NineStarPoint]

There is no doubt that bad marriages are common. That doesn't mean that true love is rare though. The question of how many of the marriages that do stay together are good marriages is somewhat separate.

[mediaman]

The divorce rate is distorted because of those who have many divorces. It's split, also, across class lines.

Marriages between college-educated people are only about 30% likely to end in divorce.

[spoonjim]

True love exists, but it’s something that’s made, not found.