[lkozma]

was posted here sometime ago:

The door refused to open. It said, "Five cents, please." He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. "I'll pay you tomorrow," he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. "What I pay you," he informed it, "is in the nature of a gratuity; I don't have to pay you." "I think otherwise," the door said. "Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt." In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. "You discover I'm right," the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt's money-gulping door. "I'll sue you," the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, "I've never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it."

(Philip K. Dick: Ubik)

[servytor]

Unrelated, but one of my favorite quotes from PKD is this one from Now Wait for Last Year:

---

“All right," Eric agreed. "If you were me, and your wife were sick, desperately so, with no hope of recovery, would you leave her? Or would you stay with her, even if you had traveled ten years into the future and knew for an absolute certainty that the damage to her brain could never be reversed? And staying with her would mean-"

"I can see what it would mean, sir," the cab broke in. "It would mean no other life for you beyond caring for her."

"That's right," Eric said. "I'd stay with her," the cab decided. "Why?" "Because," the cab said, "life is composed of reality configurations so constituted. To abandon her would be to say, I can't endure reality as such. I have to have uniquely special easier conditions."

"I think I agree," Eric said after a time. "I think I will stay with her." "God bless you, sir," the cab said. "I can see that you're a good man.”

[Thaxll]

Very similar to the great movie Arrival.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_of_Your_Life

[mdorazio]

Note that the meaning in the book was almost wholly changed for the film. A big part of the book was that by learning to think 4-dimensionally (via the alien language), the scientists found that free will did not exist. The narrator had no choice in how to act with her child - she was simply acting out a predefined narrative...

"I suddenly remembered that a morphological relative of 'performative' was 'performance,' which could describe the sensation of conversing when you knew what would be said: it was like performing in a play."

...

"Before I learned how to think in Heptapod B, my memories grew like a column of cigarette ash, laid down by the infinitesimal sliver of combustion that was my consciousness, marking the sequential present. After I learned Heptapod B, new memories fell into place like gigantic blocks, each one measuring years in duration, and though they didn't arrive in order or land contiguously, they soon composed a period of five decades. It is the period during which I know Heptapod B well enough to think in it, starting during my interviews with Flapper and Raspberry and ending with my death."

The movie left this key message out almost entirely.

[gonehome]

I thought the movie implied this as well?

I include Arrival alongside Children of Men as an example of a case where the movie is better than the book (and I'm a big Ted Chiang fan) - changing the daughter's death from a climbing accident to a disease was much better imo.

[penteract]

In the book, it's impossible to act on information from the future, whereas in the film that clearly happens in the phone call near the end.

This means that if the daughter had died in a climbing accident in the film, the mother would have to have chosen to let that happen/not warn her, whereas to avoid the disease, the only option would have been not to have the child. In the book, that wasn't an option; learning the language changed her subjective experience of time, but did not give a superpower.

[rpaddock]

"...impossible to act on information from the future..."

Might want to read:

Feeling the Future: Experimental Evidence for Anomalous Retroactive Influences on Cognition and Affect Daryl J. Bem Cornell University

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/psp-a0021524.pdf

This work has been replicated many times by others because no one believed it.

Also look up Decision Augmentation Theory.

[edanm]

Funny how taste works - I feel the opposite.

In the case of a disease, there's really nothing she can do, and iirc the film implies the hard choice here was to decide to have a child even knowing that will die.

In the car of an accident, there is the feeling that she could literally have prevented her daughter's death by preventing the accident, but "chooses" not to. The free will implications of that are much more interesting imo.

(To be clear, it's one of my favorite stories and also one of my favorite movies.)

[david-gpu]

> the hard choice here was to decide to have a child even knowing that [they] will die

Knowing that my children will suffer and die is the main reason why I didn't want to have any. Now I have two.

Funnily, it's the same reason my own mother didn't want to have kids either. Yet, here we are. I suspect it is a pretty common feeling.

[garmaine]

That was the conclusion of the movie. I remember because I hated it so much. It destroyed the story imho.

[taneq]

I thought in the movie it was cast as her choosing to accept it and cherishing the time they'd have left together? Maybe I missed the predestination theme (or maybe it was just implied... although you could say it's implied for any story involving travel or communication between different times.)

[garmaine]

We’ll I certainly walked away with an understanding that it was all predestined, which annoyed me to no end because it felt like a ridiculous and meaningless cop out. But maybe I misread something that was actually more ambiguous?

[darkerside]

Based on the incredible work of Ted Chiang

[ameen]

Thank you for sharing this. I've often wondered how some folks deal with misfortune, take it in stride and work through them than abandon all hope for an easier route.

Perseverance and Endurance are a rarity in today's society.

[BobbyJo]

> Perseverance and Endurance are a rarity in today's society.

No, they're just quiet.

[nataz]

This comment needs to be internalized by everyone who has ever worked in a collaborative environment, or God forbid manage a team of people.

For all the hard charging, 10x programer, I am a builder let me work folks out there...Empathy is hard to learn, but you'll be a better person for it. I promise.

[phailhaus]

How are you measuring perseverance and endurance? I find that such claims tend to be completely made up, based on some "sense" you get from hearing a couple of viral stories.

[joebob42]

The cabbies take is bizarre to me. Surely choosing to leave is part of reality, not a rejection of it? Why should living in reality require acceding to circumstances at every opportunity?

Unless I misunderstand the context and this quote is meant to be ironic, which seems possible.

[rpaddock]

I lived that in he Real World, for nearly 30 years. The saga of my late wife is now part of the documentary Pain Warriors. It can be watched for free on Amazon Prime and TubiTV.

What has become known as Karen's Journal is required reading at Duke school of Medicine to educate doctors about the reality of Chronic Pain. In the end the Medical Establishment failed her and she killed herself to stop the pain.

Details on that here: https://www.kpaddock.com/pw

[jacobolus]

You may enjoy this recent article about Stephen Glass (infamous news fabulist) whose wife suffered from early-onset Alzheimer’s.

https://airmail.news/issues/2021-12-4/loving-lies

[eqth]

walled

[jacobolus]

Put in [e-mail] (or whatever) as your email address and you can read it.

[plattenbau]

I think I'd like to unsubscribe from all the "Unrelated, but ..." distraction top-level replies to top comments.

Please just stop.

[mPReDiToR]

Opposite reaction.

Something that pings a neuron in another brain may be the second step in a chain to me which leads me to interesting and unexpected lines of thought.

If it bothers you, depending on your client, theres a "collapse" button at the bottom of posts so you can personally skip on entire threads as soon as you know it's not for you.

Other people have different values so I, without rancour, say "carry on" to grandparent.

[phkahler]

Reminds me of this tragic but true story about a man and his dog that died in a Corvette because the door failed to open electronically.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/te...

If your car door uses electricity to open, you best know what to do when that system fails. Death should not occur due to failure to RTFM for a door.

[chris1993]

My wife's cousin almost died from heat-stroke in her drive-way when her car trapped her inside the vehicle in full Australian summer sun because the battery failed while she was inside checking something. Doors and windows wouldn't open. Nobody heard her calls because the new car had good sound-proofing. She eventually managed to crawl through the panel behind the back seat to get into the boot (luckily she's quite petite) and get a tyre lever and smash a side-window so she could call out to a neighbour for help.

[brokenmachine]

It's too late now for her of course, but you can take the headrest off the seat and use the metal prongs to smash the windows to get out.

[mauvehaus]

Having watched a burly firefighter take three good swings with an axe to bust out a window (to get to the hood release of an unattended car fire), I am extremely skeptical of this claim.

Somebody on YouTube tested those emergency hammers and concluded they're basically useless. If you really want to break a tempered glass car window (I.e., any of them but the windshield), their recommendation was an automatic center punch.

[aaaaaaaaaaab]

You’re supposed to do it like this: https://youtu.be/tZTa8Nh0VlE

[senortumnus]

This reminds me of the spark plug ceramic demos. Little ceramic tip on a spark plug (isolated from the rest of the plug) make an effective car window smashing projectile. No idea if it would work from inside the car / if you could get enough speed on it sitting right next to the window!

https://www.reddit.com/r/mythbusters/comments/130js6/breakin...

[jes]

Right. As a firefighter, I carried a spring-loaded center-punch in the pocket of my bunker coat. No muss, no fuss. Just put the tip on a side window and press until it fires.

[kingcharles]

Watch this... this made me realize how tough car windows really are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L91_K-s4pMM

[mlindner]

He's hitting the base of the window with a blunt object. You don't want a blunt object.

[djmips]

Windshield even more so.

[fdjsafdsjl]

Depends if you are trying to break the window from the inside or the outside. It's very difficult from the outside, and much easier from the inside (I cracked my windscreen and needed a replacement, because I was carrying a long piece of wood and it moved a little and contacted the windscreen).

[mauvehaus]

Two things:

1) Are you me? I've done exactly this because I knew that my car fit a 10' board. Turns out when you're buying rough lumber 10' sometimes means 10' 2".

2) The windshield is laminated glass instead of tempered. It'll crack much more easily, but it'll (more or less) stay in one piece in the frame instead of shattering out into a million tiny bits.

[mlindner]

> Having watched a burly firefighter take three good swings with an axe to bust out a window (to get to the hood release of an unattended car fire), I am extremely skeptical of this claim.

Wrong window. You're talking about the windshield which is a completely different type of glass than other windows.

[mauvehaus]

He was trying to break the side window. Tempered glass is super tough, until you damage the outer layer. Presumably the pick end of his fire axe wasn't sharp or hard enough to scratch that outer layer without a hell of a swing behind it.

[boppo1]

I have heard keeping a shattered sparkplug inyour car can help. Something about them auto-shatters glass.

[Aloha]

I've carried a hatchet in my car for years for this reason.

[nyolfen]

breaking the windshield is the cheapest option to replace

[notJim]

Also in the "too late" vein, at least in the US, I believe cars are still required to have a latch to open the trunk from the inside. Not sure if other countries have these.

[yumraj]

Serious question: So why are all the people who are trapped/kidnapped in the cars in the movies not able to come out and have to yell to have someone come and rescue them?

That implies that there is no way to open the latch from inside and people, including me, may take that as the truth and not even try to find the latch. I for sure didn't know that there was a way.

[notJim]

For some reason, the law requires the latch to be removed if the car is in a movie ;)

[zerocount]

It's too dark to search for it, so you'd have to already know where the latch is at. I didn't know about keyless trunks until my ex-wife needed a jump and the battery was in the trunk, which could only be opened electronically or with the 'latch.' Google to the rescue!

[jstarfish]

Most of the vehicles I've seen used for this purpose in movies are Oldsmobiles and such from the 70s-- long before the latches were a requirement. Modern car trunks are also way smaller than older sedans, which don't lend themselves to human transport.

If you're ever in the trunk of a moving vehicle, do what you can to sabotage the brake lights-- the wires are usually accessible and it increases the chances of attracting police attention.

[vbezhenar]

I don't know about US, but in my country many cars (most?) are equipped with child safety switches for back doors. It's accessible when door is open (it's on door's inner edge) and if it's locked, you can't open door inside. It's needed to prevent children from accidentally opening doors, but you can use this feature for kidnapping purposes.

Of course you can always open front doors.

[pomian]

because their hands are tied.

[elzbardico]

As far as I know this is widely disseminated across the world.

[holoduke]

Front windshield is easy to brake from the inside. A gentle push with your feet will crack it. Some harder kicks will remove it for sure.

[zerocount]

Yep, not much more than moulding holding it in.

[cabalamat]

Have you actually tried this?

[forgotmyoldname]

Some cars (including mine) have a seat that’s just one unified unit. No way to remove it.

[elzbardico]

if you can get inside the boot you can open it, no need to break the windows. It is a shame this is not more widely know.

[hansthehorse]

That happens here in Florida. Older person drives into a canal and the window motors short out they are trapped.

[sizzle]

Don’t all cars have the trunk pull release by law?

[selimthegrim]

The horn depending on the battery is frightening

[quesera]

I'm having trouble envisioning an alternative power source for the horn.

Compressed air maybe, recharged by electric motor when available. Sounds like a reliability problem to me though.

[zerocount]

Why? I've only used my horn for telling people to get off their phone and go because the light turned green. I can't remember it ever being a necessity.

[silisili]

Wait what, do Corvettes not just unlock and open when you pull the handle? Every vehicle I've ever owned, from the 80s to now, manual or electric lock, the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not. If this isn't the case, I'm almost inclined to consider that criminally negligent.

[LeifCarrotson]

> the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not

The fact that the front doors both unlock when a single handle is pulled is because there's an electronic sensor and solenoid that unlocks everything when one handle is opened.

I had a Pontiac Vibe (really a Toyota Matrix) that had a cable in the door unlock assembly fail. You could open the door from the outside - the external door handle was physically the same part as the latch mechanism - but the external handle was back by your shoulder, while the internal handle was forward by the mirror and connected to the latch by a steel cable swaged to some aluminum pins; that connection eventually failed and the internal door handle flapped impotently.

I spent an embarrassing amount of time ignoring the problem and instead rolling down the window to open the door...

Regardless, it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that an automotive engineer might decide to replace cable actuator with a wire and solenoid.

[bigiain]

> Regardless, it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that an automotive engineer might decide to replace cable actuator with a wire and solenoid.

Or with a bunch of CANBUS electromechanical hardware and some shittily written software running on the entertainment unit (with insecure cellular network connectivity).

I wonder how long before someone sets up unlockyourtoyota.ru where you can send them 0.01BTC to unlock the car you're stuck inside?

[betwixthewires]

This made my day. You're 100% spot on. I laughed loudly at the absurd truth you painted for me.

Low effort comment I know, but I had to let you know.

[unobatbayar]

> unlockyourtoyota.ru

The fact that it's a russian site made my day. Russian hackers man...

[drewzero1]

I think what GP might mean is that whether you are on the driver's or passenger's side, when you pull the handle that door opens even if it is locked.

I've noticed that on both our 1995 and 2014 Fords, when you pull the door handle it mechanically unlocks that door and opens it. (On the 2014 the other doors may additionally be triggered to unlock. However, in a no-power situation pulling the handle will still mechanically unlock just that one door.)

[frosted-flakes]

Chevy Express vans and trucks didn't unlock the door when you pulled the handle. You had to manually slide the unlock toggle or hit the electronic unlock button before opening the door.

[drewzero1]

I've only noticed this feature on Fords. My SAAB requires the occupant to pull up on the lock knob on the windowsill, and my Saturn requires one to turn the lock knob on the inside door handle to the unlocked position. While both require additional action besides just pulling the handle, neither relies on the car's electrical system to open or unlock the doors (and indeed, neither car has any electrical locking component in any of the doors).

[sbierwagen]

That's a fairly common failure for many older cars. I had a 1997 Jaguar do the same thing.

[phkahler]

You could also climb over and exit the other door.

[seanp2k2]

They have a button that you hit with your thumb, not a mechanical handle. The manual door open lever is down by the driver's left foot (passenger's right foot) https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette-stingray/2014/lon...

[alistairSH]

Sure enough, Corvettes since the mid-00s (at least) have electronic doors.

Here's a video describing how to use the manual overrides (none are in plain sight)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDqmGQU6L0

Here's a photo of thee door interior (with no mechanical door pull)... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7I8AAOSwF-tgN5U1/s-l300.jpg

[bigiain]

A long time ago, a friend bought a kit for one of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purvis_Eureka

I spent a lot of time helping build it.

He got the "electric roof" version, which had this awful hodgepodge for pneumatic rams, high pressure air hoses and couplings, and a seriously underpowered hydraulic pump - with instructions to fill the system with auto transmission fluid.

It was _not_ a well designed and reliable system, and some of the failure modes left the roof/door clamped down. He kept a pocket knife in th4e glovebox so you could stab the hoses to release the hydraulic fluid and manually push the roof open.

It wasn't until it failed closed while he was taking his girlfriend to the high school formal/dance, then ruined her dress by getting red auto trans fluid on it that he bit the bullet and threw all the supplied parts away and replaced it all with electric liner actuators...

[sbierwagen]

For those who haven't clicked the link: The roof/doors are all one big assembly that hinges up and away, like Lambo doors for the entire top of the car.

[bumby]

My Nissan Versa has manual locks that do not unlock when the door handle is pulled from the inside, to include front doors (not a child safety lever issue). Granted, they’re manual so it’s easy to just unlock but from a human factors perspective I can see people panicking and just yanking on the door handle in a critical emergency like a fire.

I’ve always considered this a serious safety design flaw.

[mauvehaus]

That's how pretty much all car doors worked for decades. As a kid I used to lock the back doors when riding around and pull the handle [0]. No, the child safety locks were not enabled.

[0] Why? Why do kids do anything, really?

[bumby]

I’m not sure this is a given. My previous Ford would unlock the front door when the indoor handle was pulled, regardless of lock state. It seems like it’s depends on manufacturer, model, and options package.

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/52480/is-the-d...

[mdp2021]

> the front doors both open when the handle is pulled, locked or not

Unfortunately, this is not anymore warranted. Already in models of ten years ago, there do exist "full lock non mechanically overridable" and "lock which is unlocked through the handles". Disabling the "feature" requires intervention from the manufacturer - if it can be disabled at all.

Look, I am informed that in at least many of the current cars with RFID based keys, it is impossible to lock yourself in the car... (And the idea seems to have spawned from manufacturers coming from the territories in the world most notorious for carjacking.)

[skykooler]

That hasn't always been the case. For example, our 1991 Saturn station wagon (with mechanical locks) would only open if you unlocked the door first with the lock lever.

[judge2020]

> Police believe that when James Rogers got into the vehicle, a cable became loose and cut off the power to the operate the horn and locks. Rogers did not know how to manually unlock the vehicle and became trapped inside

> the 2007 Corvette has a manual release located on the floorboard by the driver's seat

Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation, but the issue was not knowing how to manually release the latch and not having an emergency window breaker.

[wikibob]

This is absurd victim blaming.

The problem is there is a door handle that is designed with a failure mode such that pulling the handle DOES NOT OPEN THE DOOR.

[seanp2k2]

I agree; it's like all the rollaway accidents that happen now because of electronic shifters: https://www.safetyresearch.net/the-persistence-of-rollaway/

Design matters, and bad designs can literally be deadly. Why auto mfgs feel the need to "innovate" with shifter designs is beyond me. The worst part is how every mfg seems to be implementing a different design of bad electronic shifters, from wheels and touchscreens to one-click-at-a-time joysticks to single-function pushbuttons for some gears with others on a scroll wheel. They've taken something and made it worse with no benefit to the user. At least with those auto-flushing toilets, the intention was good, even if the implementation is still somehow so awful decades later.

[aidenn0]

I drove a rental with a rotary-dial shifter. That is the single most braindead UX thing I've seen in a car that doesn't involve a touch-screen. We've had PRND(L) levers as the standard for shifting in automatics for over 50 years now, and the dial offers no advantages that I can see.

[betwixthewires]

It's not just auto manufacturers. It seems literally everything is being designed with a philosophy of "fuck the user" in mind. I cannot think of a single thing more complicated than a concrete block that functions better now than previous versions did 10 years ago, and I'm sure there are some things that work at least as good, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[rabuse]

Exactly. Couldn't they just have some system where the door handles have a magnetic dead-switch, that reverts to manual operation when no power is applied?

[brokenmachine]

The battery might not have enough juice to unlock the doors, but still not be completely dead. Of course with good design that shouldn't be a problem.

[tw04]

But the handle DOES open the door. It’s just at your feet, quite clearly marked, instead of physically on the door. It’s specifically there so that if you are in an accident you can still release the door. It’s designed With the idea the car will see a road course and is far superior to a handle on the door.

It’s sad he died but I found that handle in the first 5 minutes of owning my first corvette. It has a giant red picture of the door opening.

[Symbiote]

When you're half dazed from a collision and the car is on fire, will your scared but unhurt 11 year old son know where this hidden lever is?

I did, on a 1980s car, since it was the normal door handle.

[bumby]

The elements you're referring to are procedural mitigations to a poor design from a human factors standpoint. Those mitigations are always less preferred than managing those risks from an engineering perspective.

OSHA actually outlines the preference:

1) Eliminate the hazard outright (not possible here, you need the door to lock sometimes)

2) Engineer out the risk (they tried to do...poorly...with the manual unlock)

3) Administrative controls (e.g., the manual)

4) Personal protective equipment

[sokoloff]

> not having an emergency window breaker.

Tip for readers: if your car has removable headrests, they can serve effectively as emergency window breakers.

[dghlsakjg]

I’ve seen this tip pop up a few times, but it is worth noting that the way to break a window isn’t to hit it with the metal bits.

You have to insert the metal rod between the bottom of the window and the door card and use leverage to pry at the window until it cracks

[ClumsyPilot]

"manual release located on the floorboard by the driver's seat"

I am willing to bet my house that half the people who built that car would not find the lever if it suddenly caught fire (or any other emergency) while they are in it

[comeonseriously]

> Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation, but the issue was not knowing how to manually release the latch and not having an emergency window breaker.

Is it, is that really the issue?

[s1artibartfast]

It was certainly an issue. If you have a bright red override lever on the door, then they would have known and not had a problem.

[phkahler]

>> Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation

It was the battery cable or similar, which cut power to all the electronic means of getting out - including the other door. It was not "cut" in the sense of someone using a knife, it just came loose or similarly broke contact. This is a design failure, not a RTFM failure.

[phkahler]

>> Wait what, do Corvettes not just unlock and open when you pull the handle?

Nope, not that model.

I had the chance to take one of the Fisker Karma development vehicles home from work. Everyone said it drove great. I got in and realized the door latch was a button. The whole car way prototype and development parts. The window was kinda small to crawl through. I said no thanks. There was a loop of string in the bottom of the door pocket to manually open it. Still nope.

[jasonpeacock]

In my 2021 Honda CR-V this is a configurable option - you can decide which behavior you want.

For example, you don't want your kids to open the doors while you're driving. Or you don't want a car-jacker to reach through the window and open your door.

[errcorrectcode]

Child locks are usually different. Also, there is typically no child lock option for the driver's side front door.

[jasonpeacock]

These are not child locks. Child locks prevent opening the door regardless of its locked state.

This is about whether pulling the door latch auto-unlocks the door, or if you have to unlock the door first before pulling the door latch.

[bumby]

How is it configured? Electronically or through a switch on on the door jamb?

[jasonpeacock]

Electronically, through the settings in the touchscreen panel on the dash. These are not child locks, but rather set the behavior of the door latch when the door is locked.

[bumby]

Does it have a fail-safe configuration if electricity is lost like in the examples above? If not, the ability to change configuration may not actually mitigate the failure mode

[jjk166]

Anything that's mechanically supposed to happen is irrelevant after the mechanism, with 2 tons of metal behind it moving at high speed, slams into something significantly more substantial than the thin layer of decorative sheet metal protecting it. You can not design things to be invincible, no matter how robust something is, with sufficient force applied in a certain way, it will fail. It's honestly an engineering marvel that people consistently are able to get out of their cars after an accident.

[silisili]

There was no accident here, unless I missed something. The guy just lost power to his door locks after he got in.

[jjk166]

I'm talking more generally about cars not always unlocking after an accident.

In this specific scenario, you still have a component failure. Something that was supposed to be connected wasn't. It would be nice if they designed a better fail safe but it's not a case of "corvette handles aren't designed to unlock."

[phkahler]

It's not about locked or unlocked. Pulling the handle is supposed to open the door. Locking prevents that. In this case, the handle doesn't mechanically unlatch the door, it does so electronically. With no power it is not possible for it to unlatch. Since locking is then a software feature, we might say those doors are locked by default and require software and electronics to make them open. Because of that there is a mechanical thing you can pull, but nobody knows where that is or that it exists unless they are told.

[ntp85]

"You're holding it wrong"

[dv_dt]

This is why I carry a safety hammer utility tool in my cars for breaking glass and cutting seatbelts.

[BuildTheRobots]

I always thought this was the case until I owned a 2004 Nissan and accidentally locked my brother in.

[gambiting]

On most(all?) Modern cars you can't unlock the door from the inside if the door got locked from the outside. I think it was made law to work like this? In order to prevent thefts where someone just runs a tiny rod through an opening and pulls a handle - that doesn't work anymore. If you get locked in the car while inside there is no way to open the door, you'd have to break a window to get out.

[maxerickson]

What do you mean by modern?

My 2013 car has a physical lock pull, which the door lever is connected to, so the lock opens when you pull the lever to open the door.

[outworlder]

> On most(all?) Modern cars you can't unlock the door from the inside if the door got locked from the outside.

Teslas have an (emergency?) mechanical release on their doors. At least the Model 3 does. Given that you can't 'lock from the outside' in the ordinary sense, if this law exists, there must be some leeway.

[filoleg]

Ironically enough, Tesla Model 3 emergency mechanical release on doors is positioned so technically “well”, passengers not familiar with how the door opens in a standard way from the inside (by pressing a glowing button on the door) tend to pull on the emergency release first (which is located on the door right next to the standard release button).

Happened to my friends at least a couple of times when giving them a ride. Imo, not a bad situation, because the worst case scenario here is that they will accidentally use an emergency release instead of the standard one on their first try, which will only trigger tesla to make a warning sound that the emergency release was used. Definitely works out better in a real emergency situation too, compared to cars with difficult to find emergency release handles, given people not familiar with Tesla doors tend to reach for the emergency handles in those by default at times.

[fionaellie]

From this video, I learned that it's quite hard to find, and if you're in the back seat, there's no emergency mechanism at all. https://youtu.be/QCIo8e12sBM?t=239

[bigiain]

> If your car door uses electricity to open, you best know what to do when that system fails.

If your trillion-ish dollar advertising company masquerading as a social network has doors that use electricity and dns lookups to open, you best make sure your office staff and data centre technicians know what to do when that fails...

[ClumsyPilot]

Nah, personal responsebilityb is for loosers and plebs, when a massive company craps out or causes hundreds to die, its an unforeseeable accident

[jmiserez]

Regardless of model it's a good idea to put a emergency hammer / glass breaker in your car. (addendum: also to rescue someone else, not blaming the driver)

[beeboop]

If your headrests can be removed, the metal poles in them work well for this too. You jab one of the poles into the window seal, then pry like a crowbar. If done in the corner of the window it will break easily.

[shard]

I looked it up on YouTube since I wasn't sure how that would work. Here is a video I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTa8Nh0VlE

[boringg]

That was helpful - thanks. Hopefully will never have to use it.

[jsmith45]

Be careful with those. Plenty of cheap ones have metal hammers that will simply bounce off the window like the window was rubber (I assume the cause is wrong metal used, or point not sharp enough). And this is assuming tempered glass.

When AAA tested 3 different hammers, only 1 of the three successfully broke tempered glass. All three punch style tools broke the tempered glass.

But a lot of car windows now have laminated glass. While the tools may be able to shatter the glass for those, they still stay in one sheet, (just like shattered windshields in most car, since those are laminated glass too). And it is really hard to break through that shattered but still intact sheet, with neither style of escape tool really being much help.

[errcorrectcode]

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rescue+hammer

A quality rolling ballpoint pen would also work (given enough force) because it contains a small ball of tungsten carbide.

My knife also has a tungsten carbide window breaker on the base of it.

[olivermarks]

I have the one with the seat belt cutting blade in the handle hanging on a loop on my truck dashboard. Separately I think all cars should be required to have manual door locks (as well as electric locks if it's a luxury car). I also think all BEVS should have a manual battery ungang lever for trapped energy emergencies.

[calsy]

Can also come in handy when road raging.

[account42]

> Death should not occur due to failure to RTFM for a door.

Death should not occur due to failure to design a door that can be opened from the inside in all situations without reading any manual.

[iso1631]

I assume that if my battery was flat, pulling the handle on the inside would open it. I'm not at all sure though, it's been nearly over a decade since the last time I had a lock which you pushed up and down.

I have a emergency hammer/seatbelt cutter near the gearstick just in case.

[duck]

> Isabel Moreno told reporters he owned a 2006 Corvette and was trapped inside when the battery went out. Fortunately, he said eventually the battery started recharging itself enough to be able to roll the window down, and he was able to get out safely.

Curious how this is possible or was this just misreported?

[megous]

Googled it for you: https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/question...

[EvanAnderson]

Yikes! Makes me think twice about being in a newer Corvette.

The DeLorean (DMC-12) is known for having the lock solenoids that get stuck energized when a relay fails. Fortunately you can pull the relay to de-energize the solenoids. (Climbing out of a window on a DeLorean isn't an option for normal-sized people.)

[WalterBright]

I realized my key fob battery was dying. I had no idea how to open the doors without it. I figured I'd better google it.

[johnorourke]

Honorary mention also of Cory Doctorow's Unauthorized Bread short story: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...

[lapetitejort]

And of course the 4chan greentext "Please drink a verification can": https://imgur.com/r/4chan/dgGvgKF

[winternett]

Many other car makers do this too. My Volvo has a remote start feature installed (that I paid for in buying the car) that is not accessible without enrollment in a (pretty much useless otherwise) monthly subscription service.

It's flat out criminal considering that I could have just bought the device with a remote at Auto Zone for 1/4 of the price (that also doesn't allow the auto maker to track/log each time I use it and where I am when I use it).

[alistairSH]

Toyota is being lambasted for forcing a subscription on a function between the key fob and the car (RF signal). There is no app to port to various device OSes. There is no server infrastructure to maintain.

Subaru's subscription is for remote start via app.

Which is Volvo's service?

[gambiting]

Volvo has a subscription called Volvo On Call, and it's app based. You can't remotely start the car from just the fob. So yes, you are paying basically for the server upkeep + the sim card installed in your car that enables all those services.

[Fezzik]

Subaru has the same thing on their new cars - subscribe annually to Starlink or no remote start for you! I live in a winter wonderland where remote start would be a dream but no way I am paying a cent for this feature. I’ll have to look in to the after market options.

[nuccy]

VW diesel cars can be equipped with Webasto (auxiliary heater which burns diesel). One gets a remote (in my experience reaching up to 500 meters) which can be used to start this heater along with car's climate control. The advantage is that it consumes 1/3-1/5 of what an idling engine does, while heating interior and engine coolant much faster. The disadvantage is that it consumes battery charge, but to counteract that the car is equiped with 30-50% bigger battery. Though this was never a problem for me, from my experience on 94Ah battery it can run for hours without any effect on engine starting, while heating the car in some 10-15 minutes when it is below freezing outside.

[gambiting]

So in my Volvo XC60 T8, the car just came with a Webasto preinstalled from factory, it was standard fit on all models(in 2020 in UK anyway). But you can only start it from the app, they don't give you a separate fob like the one you can buy from Webasto, so you have to pay Volvo's subscription to use it.

[baq]

and, in the models that use the engine coolant as a working fluid, your engine is heated up to a cozy operating temperature right from the start, so you end up about even on fuel.

[edmundsauto]

You’re not interested in paying for something that provides you with very clear value? So instead you wil go pay money for a different system to bolt on?

I don’t mean to criticize, but I have to admit that I cannot empathize.

[ses1984]

If I put a gun to your head and then sell you a service of not shooting, that's a clear value too right?

[edmundsauto]

In this narrow of a scope, yes - it is absolutely valuable for me to be able to pay to not die. The alternative is to be killed.

But of course the world is larger than this made up example. Context matters, and this context isn’t really relevant except to say that there are different contexts that necessitate different decisions.

But you knew that, even as you posted such a ridiculous comparison. I think your point would have been much more effective and less reactionary if you had actually made your point, instead of resorting to absurdism.

[kybernetyk]

Said service is called “taxation”

[Fezzik]

Would you find it appropriate for automakers to charge a monthly fee to be able to simply start an automobile you bought? If no, then why are you okay with a monthly fee to do so remotely? It’s rather straightforward - you’re either for usury or against it, I guess. This is usury.

(usury is not exactly the right word, but it’s the best I could think of at the moment).

[edmundsauto]

It’s nuanced - I don’t approve when someone changes the terms of a deal that we already agreed upon. At the same time, I think there is a reasonable expectation that companies don’t have to support something into eternity (not that is what happened here, but in general I think support for a feature that requires maintenance is okay to have an expected lifespan).

Another nuance is that starting the car is core to the functionality, remote start is not.

If they were doing this only moving forward, for new sales, I think it would be totally fine. I wouldn’t buy that car if I cared about the feature, but I totally think it’s valid to have premium subscription addons.

In the situation where they have altered the previous deal and the service does not require maintenance by the company, it’s pretty fucked up and i would love to see a class action happen for existing owners.

[Loughla]

Yeah - not sure why Toyota is getting hammered for this.

Subaru does this as well. You can get app enabled remote start from your phone, if you buy their subscription service.

I love Subaru, but that is a trash system.

[lastofthemojito]

That feels like apples-and-oranges to me if you're talking about a smartphone app feature. A smartphone app has to be regularly upgraded to pay nice with new OS versions, has to have back-end servers, etc. Toyota is disabling remote start functionality between the key fob and the vehicle if the vehicle doesn't have a subscription. I'm not surprised a smartphone app requires a subscription but I am surprised and disappointed that a feature on a car's key fob does.

[14]

I too am highly disappointed in Toyota here. A remote start is something you can buy at any auto store and have installed by a mechanic for a couple hundred bucks. Will they block people from going that route now? They charge such a premium for their cars and this just seems petty.

[michaelmrose]

The logical next step would be to ensure that you can't do that in the name of security or if you CAN do it then the "partner" that sells that service has to pay more than you would for the privilege of being allowed on the "platform".

[criddell]

I have remote start on my Subaru and I think it's essentially this:

https://www.subarupartspros.com/sku/h001sfl300.html

On that page it says:

> This Genuine Subaru Accessory is an alternative for customers who do not enroll in STARLINK Safety and Security Plus.

[acomjean]

Subaru at this point is a sub brand of Toyota. (they're part of the "Toyota Group" as of last year)

[ejj28]

Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, and Subaru is also invested in Toyota. From what I understand being an affiliate in the Toyota Group is not remotely the same as them being a sub brand of Toyota.

[bserge]

> I could have just bought the device with a remote at Auto Zone for 1/4 of the price

But you didn't? I hope your realize at least half of the responsibility is on you as a consumer. You pay for and enable these idiotic ideas.

[winternett]

Incorrect, all of their cars come without the option. Buying an alternate car just because of one corrupt feature is not reasonable nor effective as a protest, many new cars now leverage this tactic and there is no real choice because they get away with it based on leverage.

The responsibility is on regulators, not me as a consumer.

[brokenmachine]

When the regulators have failed, the only option is to vote with your wallet.

I'm sticking to older cars without this nonsense.

[Phenomenit]

I think some of the reasoning behind the fee is that there's a simcard in the car that needs to be payed for and if you opt out then they don't have to pay for it. I have the same service and I can't live without the remotly started heating so for me it's worth every krona.

[mcguire]

According to the article, the remote start feature from the remote does not use the cell connection.

[winternett]

A remote RF device could do that without the Sim card, the same key that unlocks the car... My problem is that I paid for a device (the starter device already installed on my car) that I can't use without a membership. People have had remote start on cars for decades without needing a bloatware subscription to XM radio.... sigh

[Phenomenit]

Ok so your device is not supplied by volvo?

[winternett]

No, not the issue at all. The problem is that I refuse to pay a fee and use a tracking app just so I can use remote start features already installed on my car that don't need to be part of any paid monthly service.

My car should not require a cell phone with the maker's app installed on it, or even an Internet connection to fully operate... It's insane to think it should from a reliability standpoint.

[cmurf]

If only it were insanity. It might be curible.

[jkaplowitz]

That might very well justify some fee, but $8/month is excessive if one only cares about remote start.

[Phenomenit]

Yeah I pay less than 40€ per year(390 sek) and with it I also get emergency services with towing etc. There's a button in the ceiling.

[gambiting]

Btw I also own a Volvo and at least here in UK you get emergency services regardless of whether you pay for the Volvo On Call subscription or not. Breakdown cover is provided for every new Volvo as long as you do the service at a Volvo garage, nothing to do with On Call subscription either.

[bluepaper]

Finished reading Ubik just the other night - the paying for every little thing was haunting, almost claustrophobic with this passage about the door (amongst other things - fantastic book though)

[KingFelix]

Its brilliant!

[gentleman11]

My wife and I need a new car sometime soon. Is there a company that makes cars that are reasonably reliable but that are without anti features like tracking, electronic everything, bs parts replacement costs due to ip, features you are locked out of via software, subscriptions, software preventing you from working on the car without a special license, ads, etc?

Look at the ways software is making the world a better place…

[simondotau]

I'm not suggesting that they're perfect in any regard, but Hyundai/Kia do tend to implement electronics and software well enough that they're not going to infuriate you for the next five to ten years. Except even they're falling prey to over-electronicification — their absolute latest models are following an industry trend of replacing some physical buttons with touch-haptic panels. Yeesh.

Mazda are still fairly sane and their cars are quite lovely.

In the luxury German segment, BMW are the least worst. (This definitely wasn't the case 15+ years ago, but from 2010 onwards they have been quite good.)

[CamperBob2]

Did BMW follow through with their plan to make you 'subscribe' to your heated seats?

[seanp2k2]

According to plenty of preppers, the 12V Cummins Diesel trucks were the last great EMP-resistant vehicles https://dieselresource.com/diesel-resources/2nd-generation-5...

[gambiting]

Dacia cars are pretty much as barebones as it gets. You get a fully functional car for a low price, with very few electronic gadgets(I think the peak of sophistication is having bluetooth integrated with the radio).

[amelius]

This is like buying a dumb TV, and is probably close to impossible.

[MonaroVXR]

Here you go, there are more, search on the website.

https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-le...

[amelius]

"This item was discontinued on June 17, 2021"

[onlyrealcuzzo]

What's wrong with 2017 Kia Optimas?

[MonaroVXR]

Older cars to be honest.

[kps]

> Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly

Joe clearly doesn't have an Apple door.

[goda90]

It's either micro-transactions, or mandatory ads: https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/rcka8s/new_c...

[Aerroon]

I think I would prefer lootboxes. With lootboxes once you get the fob it's yours to keep, rather than having to keep paying for it.

[irrational]

Or do without.

[Loughla]

In terms of the remote start, yes, you can do without.

But how long until BASIC functions become subscription service? Like electronically locking doors, or some other such nonsense?

Once money finds a path, my belief is that the path gets widened.

[jopsen]

> Once money finds a path, my belief is that the path gets widened

Maybe, but it does go the other way too... I used to pay per sms :)

Disruption can happen... with cars it'll probably happen when all cars are self driving, rented per trip, and yes, maybe we'll still spend more money on cars -- but we'll probably also use transportation more.

[NikolaNovak]

Exactly; as well, in some situations (cold Canadian Winter with an infant etc), remote start is higher priority than remote doors, or electric windows, etc. "Basic" function vs "Luxury" can get awfully relative awfully fast...

[manquer]

I have seen the this happen in real life with housing startups many of them use mobile apps for unlocking doors in India - nestaway [1] or Zolo[2] and others, including unscrewing the lock

Doors won't unlock if rent is not paid on time, sometimes it is not even delayed rent payments, the company will charge you frivolously for something and you will be locked out unless you resolve the payment dispute i.e. talk to support to waive/rescind the charge or pay for it, and that goes as well as talking to any support to revert a charge.

[1] https://www.nestaway.com/

[2] https://zolostays.com/

[ClumsyPilot]

"Doors won't unlock if rent is not paid on time"

Need to bring back public floggibg for whoever came up with this

[JetAlone]

Nestaway's website is a real window into the dystopia. It's kind of refreshing to have a panopticonic nightmare conveyed by an aesthetic other than alegria for once.

[thatguy0900]

Reminds me of "drink a verification can" greentext https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/1ggg4u/please_drink_...

[Y_Y]

We can do better than a link to a Reddit thread with a screenshot of some text. I found this on GameFAQs slightly modified from the original and posted the day after, on 2013-06-16.

  -2018
  -wake up feeling sick after a late night of playing vidya
  -excited to play some halo 2k19
  -"xbox on"
  -...
  -"XBOX ON"
  -"Please verify that you are "annon332" by saying "Doritos™ Dew™ it right!"
  -"Doritos™ Dew™ it right"
  -"ERROR! Please drink a verification can"
  -reach into my Doritos™ Mountain Dew™ Halo 2k19™ War Chest
  -only a few cans left, needed to verify 14 times last night
  -still feeling sick from the 14
  -force it down and grumble out "mmmm that really hit the spot"
  -xbox does nothing
  -i attempt to smile
  -"Connecting to verification server"
  -...
  -"Verification complete!"
  -finally
  -boot up halo 2k19
  -finding multiplayer match...
  -"ERROR! User attempting to steal online gameplay!"
  -my mother just walked in the room
  -"Adding another user to your pass, this will be charged to your credit card. Do you accept?"
  -"NO!"
  -"Console entering lock state!"
  -"to unlock drink verification can"
  -last can
  -"WARNING, OUT OF VERIFICATION CANS, an order has been shipped and charged to your credit card"
  -drink half the can, oh god im going to be sick
  -pour the last half out the window
  -"PIRACY DETECTED! PLEASE COMPLETE THIS ADVERTISEMENT TO CONTINUE"
  -the mountain dew ad plays
  -i have to dance for it
  -feeling so sick
  -makes me sing along
  -dancing and singing
  -"mountain dew is for me and you"
  -throw up on my self
  -throw up on my tv and entertainment system
  -router shorts
  -"ERROR NO CONNECTION! XBOX SHUTTING OFF"
  -"PLEASE DRINK VERIFICATION CAN TO CONTINUE"

[exo762]

Greentext, as the most relevant form of art.

[thatguy0900]

Well, it's not a greentext without the green text.

[NotPractical]

Does this content really have a place on here?

[dijit]

Honestly. This is quite pointed satire at the current state of things.

If you showed someone from the 70s how things are today, they would view these two things as not as dissimilar as we do.

[ryandrake]

I was going to say! Since quite a large number of HN's readership is hard at work actually building these paywalls, digital restrictions and gatekeepers, unnecessarily Internet-connected devices, and other corporate-mediated dystopias, I'd say Please Drink Verification Can is exceedingly appropriate here.

[mrlonglong]

Well said!

[ljm]

They're not so different from the old bash.org quotes (as in hunter2) or the old b3ta ones. It's just classic internet culture.

I think this particular one satirizes a patent Microsoft filed showing how to detect how many people are watching a TV (via the Kinect).

[duskwuff]

There's also some inspiration taken from Sony's patent "System for converting television commercials into interactive networked video games":

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en

(Note in particular "SAY MCDONALDS TO END COMMERCIAL" in Figure 9.)

[phist_mcgee]

Humor is an effective medium for exchanging ideas and concepts. I would say satire in small doses is perfect for HN.

[cyral]

It was the first HN comment to give me a good laugh in a while

[bschwindHN]

Humor?? In _my_ gated community??

[mensetmanusman]

This reminds me of the Charlie card for using the subway in Boston:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kacASNARakQ

It has fun history, apparently they were going to introduce a nickel tax to get off the subway, so the legend is that Charlie never got off, because he didn’t have a nickel.

[ArteEtMarte]

Nearly happened to me on the Tokyo subway. Train from Narita to Tokyo, couldn't find a way to get out of the system in Shibuya.

[Jenda_]

There is a Soviet children's book with the same topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunno_on_the_Moon#Lunar_capita...

[QuercusMax]

Highly recommend Ubik; I read it in part because I saw this quote, which isn't necessarily a good reflection of the actual content of the story. A little surprised nobody's adapted it as a movie yet.

[dls2016]

Similar: Libertarian Police Department

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertari...

[dharmab]

Also, Private Police by Fry and Laurie

https://youtu.be/vLfghLQE3F4

[mdp2021]

In the sketch, the "client" states that he called the police and all he could get was on-hold music.

I am afraid one can inform the international public: in some countries, this is exactly what happens, since years.

[rightbyte]

There are two cops were I live. I guess they don't always pick up. Or do you mean 911?

[mdp2021]

Yes I meant the equivalent of 911.

[LAC-Tech]

In 2021 the real government funded police would have zero interest in hearing about that kind of crime - assuming UK police are anything like police here.

So this seems like a bit of an improvement :)

[betwixthewires]

I saw this as a greentext macro a while back. I wonder where it came from originally.

[charcircuit]

This wouldn't be a problem if it just charged your credit card. I do think it should be a cheaper. $0.005 would be a more reasonable price. I would definitely pay $0.1 a day to use all my doors. Maybe like my front door since its more heavy duty would be a $0.05 / use door.

[matheusmoreira]

This sort of stuff used to be the nightmarish imaginations of cyberpunk authors. Now it's reality. Extremely disturbing. It's getting to the point I'm starting to think technology is detrimental to human dignity.

[csours]

Reading Ubik was a real trip for me. Highly recommend.

[epberry]

This feature does not prevent you from unlocking the car. Just pointing your key at your car outside your building and turning it on in the cold.

[KingFelix]

Just had a conversation about this exact idea. Such a brilliant book