[dingdongbing]

Why is it an important problem? We have hormonal and non-hormonal UIDs, many different types of pills, rings, and not to mention _condoms_ which actually prevents STDs. I don't have a problem with other guys heating their balls up, but where is the important problem?

[clarkevans]

Why must women must be the ones that compromise by having a medical intervention? Don't they also have the right to be "squeamish" about having an IUD or their hormones altered?

[dingdongbing]

Use condoms.

>don't they get the right to be squeamish about having an IUD or their hormones altered?

IUD exist without any hormones, and taking hormones generally are safe and extemely well tested. Saying "hormones altered" shows your bias, and you don't think blasting your balls with heat "alters" your hormones? Certainly men who get vasectomies produce less testosterone.

[gambiting]

>>Certainly men who get vasectomies produce less testosterone.

It literally doesn't, it's a weird repeated myth about vasectomies.

https://www.vasectomy.org.au/faqs/sex-life-myths/#:~:text=A%....

>> and taking hormones generally are safe and extemely well tested.

Well, if you are willing to accept an increased risk of cancer, sure, "extremely safe". Like, don't get me wrong, it's still one of the best options for pregnancy prevention, but let's not pretend like the pills are candy - they aren't.

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/h...

[FooBarBizBazz]

> Saying "hormones altered" shows your bias

What is "Shows your bias" supposed to mean here? Look: There are women who don't like hormonal birth control. They feel bloated &etc. Trust me on this.

> IUD exist without any hormones

Yes, and theoretically and by the numbers it's effective, but did you know that it hurts to put one in? It's actually not a small ask. If a woman chooses it herself without prompting, fine. And in the context of a really long term relationship where you can "have a conversation", maybe. But it's not a little thing. In fact, it hurts enough that it can create a fair amount of resentment.

> you don't think blasting your balls with heat "alters" your hormones?

Actually no, that's not the mechanism at work here.

> Use condoms.

Well, that's reasonable advice, though you still do want to use multiple methods.

[dingdongbing]

We have tested methods of birth control for women. We have untested and/or not as effective and/or not as safe methods for men. These methods also alter your hormones, the testicles are where the male hormones are produced. (We also have condoms guys)

The "important problem" should be to have _even safer_ birth control, not male birth control.

[glenda]

A vasectomy does not inhibit testosterone production and the hormones in existing birth control have been shown to cause blood clots, migraines and other serious issues for women taking them.

Condoms require proper use every time and are not as effective as other methods.

[dingdongbing]

The increased risk is very slight, and there are contraceptive pills without estrogen which do not have any increased risk at all.

[matheusmoreira]

Power and control.

Females have a wide range of birth control options, all highly effective. However, they are all entirely under the woman's control. They can stop birth control without the man even knowing about it.

This isn't some conspiracy theory, either. Women do show up to gynecologists to ask them to remove their IUDs with the explicit intent to have a child regardless of their partner's wishes. This is not considered rape.

Male contraception eliminates this problem. Men are now in direct control of whether their sperm is able to fertilize. Just like women are currently in control of whether they ovulate.

[krageon]

If your relationship balance and trust is based on whether or not your partner can secretly make babies with you without your consent, that is something to be addressed (in a human way, not by using ultrasound on your testicles).

[matheusmoreira]

Relationships are hard and often imperfect. People often lie and act irrationally. I've seen justifications like "he won't leave me if I have a baby with him".

As men, this is absolutely something that we should worry about.

[krageon]

They are hard and can be imperfect. More importantly, you cannot have a good relationship founded on this kind of thinking:

> People often lie and act irrationally.

If that is your fundamental truth in interacting with your partner(s), your relationships will never really get anywhere. It is just not good advice to tell people to do so, unless you want them to never create meaningful connections with their partners.

[matheusmoreira]

My experiences with relationships are overwhelmingly positive. However, there's always a non-zero risk that such a maneuver can happen. I've seen it happen, many times. Even in otherwise happy couples. Are you willing to bet your future on it?

[dingdongbing]

Your partner can also kill you in your sleep, life is never a guarantee

[krageon]

Betting your future on your partner is the whole point of having a shared household. You and I must have a significantly divergent of what a positive relationship looks like.

[dingdongbing]

Finally a real answer, and not an increase of 2% chance of blood clots for a certain type of contraceptive pill.

But this doesn't make a difference either because now the man can stop going to the ball blasting session.

The main issue is trust, and why are you having unprotected sex with people you don't trust in the first place?

[matheusmoreira]

> But this doesn't make a difference either because now the man can stop going to the ball blasting session.

It makes a huge difference. Actually it changes everything. With male birth control, there are 4 possible outcomes:

  1. Man and woman don't use birth control.
     Conception is likely.

  2. Man uses birth control. Woman doesn't.
     Conception is unlikely.

  3. Man doesn't use birth control. Woman does.
     Conception is unlikely.

  4. Man and woman use birth control.
     Chance of conception is astronomically low.

Notice how conception is only likely when both partners want it.

When only women have access to effective birth control, they have a lot more leverage and therefore power:

  1. Man has no birth control. Woman doesn't use hers.
     Conception is likely.

  2. Man has no birth control. Woman uses hers.
     Conception is unlikely.

Currently, the choice to have children rests almost entirely on the female. All she needs to do is secretly stop her birth control.

> The main issue is trust, and why are you having unprotected sex with people you don't trust in the first place?

Trust should not be necessary for a matter of this importance. Children should only be born when both partners consent. It's as simple as that.

Also, condoms are not particularly effective at contraception. The statistics assume perfect use and that doesn't happen in reality. Their main purpose is protection against sexually transmitted diseases. That isn't perfect either.

[dingdongbing]

What kind of relationship do you think you're building without any trust and explicitly telling your partner you don't trust her by both of you using contraceptives?

Let the fairer sex have some power

[matheusmoreira]

> What kind of relationship do you think you're building without any trust and explicitly telling your partner you don't trust her by both of you using contraceptives?

One where I don't end up with children I didn't plan to have.

> Let the fairer sex have some power

They do have the power to prevent conception. That's nice.

They should not have the power to have our children without our consent. The reasons for this should be obvious to anyone. I'm honestly surprised it's not considered rape.

[gambiting]

>>The main issue is trust, and why are you having unprotected sex with people you don't trust in the first place?

I guess you never had a condom break? As rare as it is, it happens.

[dingdongbing]

Actually I've had it happen quite a few times, but it's been my own fault every time either for using condoms that were too thin or the wrong size when I first started using condoms or being drunk when putting them on.

[gambiting]

Right, as you yourself admit - it has nothing to do with trust. You can absolutely trust or not trust someone, and a condom can still break, maybe because you made a mistake, maybe for some other reason, but trust isn't the "main" issue.

[dingdongbing]

This guy was talking about female contraceptions, not condoms

[FooBarBizBazz]

Men also have a second option that preserves power and control: Just avoid penile-vaginal sex until pregnancy is desired. I.e., say "no".

[matheusmoreira]

Yeah, sure. I want to be happy though. Why can't we have our own pill?

[FooBarBizBazz]

Sure, I don't disagree. But, you know, my post contained a little bit of a payload; I wasn't saying you need to be celibate.

[lazide]

Condoms are not very reliable (historically about 90% pregnancy prevention effectiveness over a year) due to issues with using them.

The other methods can fail due to misuse (missing a pill or get the timing wrong) or be removed without the partners knowledge - which does happen surprisingly often.

[dingdongbing]

It's 98% for one year according to the NHS.

IUDs dont fail, and certainly a guy can miss his ball heating session or stop without the partners knowledge.

[gambiting]

>>IUDs dont fail

They absolutely do, and it's often life threatening when it happens. It's very unlikely, but it's not absolute protection.

https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/get-pregnant-iud

[dingdongbing]

It does say that the baby's and the mother's health could be in danger, but where does it say it's often life threatening?

Never heard about an IUD failing at all so thanks for the link anyhow

[gambiting]

It says that with an IUD if you get pregnant it's more likely that it will be an ectopic pregnancy, and those are by very definition extremely dangerous to the mother and treated as medical emergencies most of the time.

"It is the most common cause of death among women during the first trimester at approximately 6-13% of the total"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

[matheusmoreira]

> where does it say it's often life threatening?

IUDs greatly reduce overall risk of pregnancy. The risk is not zero, though. When IUDs do fail, and they will, they increase the risk of ectopic pregnancies. The vast majority of those are located in the uterine tubes. Those are life threatening. There is no space for the fetus in the tube, it will rupture and cause severe bleeding which can and will kill the mother if left untreated. It's an important cause of acute abdomen.

[lazide]

Had it happen once with a partner (copper IUD, and it has been installed correctly), it was pretty terrible emotionally and physically.

[lazide]

The little asterisk you see on those 98% numbers is important, as it ignores the real life variables that come up. At least according to this planned parenthood link [https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/condom...] found when tracking down some data (they do a lot of birth control), it’s actually even worse - 15 out of 100 couples using them consistently get pregnant every year, so 85% real world effectiveness.

Not saying either side is the only one who ever does weird things - noting that ideally, each side would be able to make a choice and have it stick, and it would require both sides consent for a child.

[dymk]

98% if used correctly, which they aren’t. Now I guess one could say “well then that’s a personal problem - people should just use them correctly”.

But the problem we want to solve is poor control over family planning, not blaming people for making human mistakes. We do that by developing better contraception options, for both men and women.

[matheusmoreira]

> It's 98% for one year according to the NHS.

Assumes perfect use. The real figure is lower. Condoms simply can't compete with other contraception methods. Their main purpose is prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.

[elif]

Women with health complications and healthy partners, women concerned about future fertility, etc.

[collegeburner]

Uhh Id be concerned about this for the same reason, do we know the effects of repeatedly microwaving my balls on cancer and future fertility (both ability to get a woman pregnant and rate of birth defects)?