[mzarate06]

> One thing I've never really recovered is the passion I had for side projects

I know how this feels. After a few bouts of burnout over my ~20 year career, I'm not convinced we fully recover from all of it. I think each bout leaves some permanent damage, along with increased risk of subsequent bouts. I made a similar comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22164678

The best general advice I can give is don't push anything. If you're not feeling motivated to engage in a side project, no problem, don't pursue one right now. Give things time and see how you feel after 2-6 months. Other general advice - reduce work hours if you can, exercise regularly, and relax. Morning/evening walks combine the latter two well.

Learning something new can also help combat burnout fogginess. I've found courses in something of interest work well (search Coursera, Udacity, Udemy, etc.). What I like about these is they're smaller in scale and more self contained than an open-ended side project. They allow you to commit time and energy in small chunks and at your own pace, but still leave you with something valuable in the end. E.g. over the years I've taken courses in Vue, Svelte, TypeScript, and a couple math refreshers. All enjoyable and worth while IMO.

[crossroadsguy]

Software development is my only expertise and it doesn’t interest me at all. I am very good at it but not excellent. I don’t even think about it beyond the usual 9-5 or so. I don’t want to, I don’t feel like it. I think the effort you need to put or that minimum amount of passion/liking you’ve to put into it, for being very good —> excellent, is just missing from my life (or rather missing from my “work”).

I am in mid 30s now (single; kinda by choice; with no financial liability) and it feels like it’s some kind of fake life I’m living at work even though I know that people one forth of my skill have lived it through and make it through 55 and all.

I considered switching caterers like studying public policy etc or sometimes just doing a one year MBA from somewhere but even the thought scares the shit out of me (thought of MBA I mean). I like history, literature. I often fantasise about working in film making (industry) (not something to do with computers though). I had done woodworking and I had really liked it. Then I dropped.

I am slowly trying to make peace with it. Trying to get into some nice MNC for 6-7 years and kinda stick around and then a stock of things after that.

Why I’m not exploring other fields is because one thing I don’t want in my life at this stage is not earning a living - bills and saving for emergency (in this country you gotta do that; there’s no healthcare).

I think I’m not alone like this. There are many people like me. Or that’s the hope. Maybe I’ll make it somehow.

I think I should meet some kickass career counsellor or make a long post on some subreddit. I had tried here once. In fact that’s how I had created this account.

[taurath]

I think coming to an understanding of what you want out of life in general is a big undertaking in itself, and a lot of people coast along with the defaults presented to them and then wake up at 50 and despair that the options are now closed to them once they start thinking about it.

I’d suggest a good therapist to try to understand what you really want out of this one life - I am in the same boat right now, thinking about what I want to do next whether in work or in life. I tend to prioritize lifestyles over specific work/career related goals, but I often get sucked into spending all my energy at work. This gets me paid, and well, but I tend also to burn out after a time when I don’t feel like I can focus on other things.

I for one hope there’s something out there that really calls to me more than programming jobs, but if not or I can’t find it then hopefully I’ll be able to find a life I find worth living regardless.

[crossroadsguy]

It's been difficult, yes. Especially when managers expect you to put in more hours and say it directly or indirectly. And being in a country where expectation of a healthy work-life balance is often made to look like you are slacker is sad.

Shitty work life balance in the software field is one of the reasons I lack passion in the field. People say "try US/EU companies". That's bollocks. Those companies actually propagate it. They have these offshore centres so that they will get cheap talent and they can expect them work their own time zone hours and then match US TZ if nothing then daily for a nightly "sync".

Anyway, I have tried finding a career counsellor and have failed so far. I guess I will keep trying to find it out.

[PragmaticPulp]

> I think each bout leaves some permanent damage, along with increased risk of subsequent bouts.

Negative experiences tend to produce learned behaviors and reactions that we’re not aware of. These can be overcome, but it takes effort to identify them and implement deliberate changes in our behavior. There are various ways of doing this from self-guided books to professional therapy. It’s not exactly “damage” in the sense that it’s permanent or unaddressable, though. Viewing it as such can hamper recovery.

[mzarate06]

Thanks for this. All good to know, and I wouldn't want to hamper anyone's recovery. I probably should have said "...each bout leaves a successive weakening...". Difference being to your point - I'm uncertain of serious irreversible damage imposed by burnout, in the literal sense.

What I meant to convey, is that w/each bout I felt successively weaker and more sensitive to toxic patterns or conditions recognized from prior bouts. When experienced, I found they took me to bad places more easily (mentally, emotionally, etc.), and for longer durations. I felt less resilient.

And not just compared to who I was before each bout, but also when I inquired, or compared myself, to teammates next to me going through the same conditions. They often didn't feel as affected or concerned. Is that b/c they never experienced burnout? Is it b/c I have, and am more sensitive to it or have lingering effects? I don't know.

But that's what I meant - I feel each bout with burnout takes more out of you, in a way that makes you less resilient to subsequent bouts.

[madaxe_again]

I’m not sure that you can talk yourself out of physical brain damage. PTSD alters the character and volume of grey matter present in the brain.

I guess veterans etc. who suffer throughout their lives with it just aren’t sufficiently resilient?

[bildung]

I don't want to diminish what people having PTSD have to endure, but physical changes in the brain don't mean much without quantification. Regular learning alone also leaves physical and lasting changes in the brain.

I mention this because pointing to the physicality of psychological conditions often induces a sense of fatalism that often isn't warranted per se, and can become some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Again, this does not mean people should just pull themselves up. It does suggest that people could in principle learn coping mechanisms (through therapy etc.) to a degree that allows for leading a fulfilling life, even with PTSD manifesting physically in the brain.

[ntlk]

The brain can be reshaped again following trauma. The Body Keeps The Score is a book that talks through the effectiveness of different approaches to healing and how they impact brain changes.

[madaxe_again]

Yeah - I was recommended this shortly after I crashed out - good read, interesting insights, and I did find therapy helpful with the more conscious aspects of my collapse.

The bits that won’t go away are the dread, the insomnia, the constant anxious waiting for the sky to fall. I think I’ve pared off the behavioural bits over the years and have largely addressed them - but my mind continues to wrestle with intangible beasts.

My cousin has just qualified as a psychedelic therapist, so later this summer he’s visiting and we’re going to try breaking the cycle.

[taurath]

Trauma informed therapies can be really helpful though psychedelics look to be the most promising short term therapeutics, if they truly pan out. Things like EMDR and IFS can manage to really hit at the core of those intangibles beasts, and start to untangle the web.

[randycupertino]

The two books that helped me the most were The Depression Cure by Stephen Ilardi and Feeling Good by David Byrnes.

[prox]

But not all burn outs are the same. PTSD level burn outs do, but you also have other types that aren’t at that level. As always the answer is “it depends” and get professional help.

[madaxe_again]

Perhaps we should have different words for “I am maybe feeling a bit tired of doing the same thing every day” and “my brain is physically damaged from years of relentless 24/7 stress to the extent that basic functions like sleep elude me”.

[prox]

The military uses color codes, green, yellow, orange, red. Red is PTSD territory, a true brain break. But yellow, orange are bad as well, lots of people are in that zone without knowing until it is too late.

[gugagore]

I do not think it's scientific to claim the "brain is physically damaged from not-very-physiological-thing". We do have evidence for brain development that must occur before it is too late (e.g. critical window for language).

Sustained and elevated stress causes damage to the whole body, not just the brain. If understanding what you experienced as brain damage helps you accept how things happened and how things are, then all the more power to you.

But if there is something in your thought patterns that you want to change, but feel hopeless that your brain is damaged, I recommend trying to find another framing aside from "damage".

[Angostura]

Saying some problems are the result of learned associations and behaviours doesn't mean that all problems are.