[PragmaticPulp]

> I think each bout leaves some permanent damage, along with increased risk of subsequent bouts.

Negative experiences tend to produce learned behaviors and reactions that we’re not aware of. These can be overcome, but it takes effort to identify them and implement deliberate changes in our behavior. There are various ways of doing this from self-guided books to professional therapy. It’s not exactly “damage” in the sense that it’s permanent or unaddressable, though. Viewing it as such can hamper recovery.

[mzarate06]

Thanks for this. All good to know, and I wouldn't want to hamper anyone's recovery. I probably should have said "...each bout leaves a successive weakening...". Difference being to your point - I'm uncertain of serious irreversible damage imposed by burnout, in the literal sense.

What I meant to convey, is that w/each bout I felt successively weaker and more sensitive to toxic patterns or conditions recognized from prior bouts. When experienced, I found they took me to bad places more easily (mentally, emotionally, etc.), and for longer durations. I felt less resilient.

And not just compared to who I was before each bout, but also when I inquired, or compared myself, to teammates next to me going through the same conditions. They often didn't feel as affected or concerned. Is that b/c they never experienced burnout? Is it b/c I have, and am more sensitive to it or have lingering effects? I don't know.

But that's what I meant - I feel each bout with burnout takes more out of you, in a way that makes you less resilient to subsequent bouts.

[madaxe_again]

I’m not sure that you can talk yourself out of physical brain damage. PTSD alters the character and volume of grey matter present in the brain.

I guess veterans etc. who suffer throughout their lives with it just aren’t sufficiently resilient?

[bildung]

I don't want to diminish what people having PTSD have to endure, but physical changes in the brain don't mean much without quantification. Regular learning alone also leaves physical and lasting changes in the brain.

I mention this because pointing to the physicality of psychological conditions often induces a sense of fatalism that often isn't warranted per se, and can become some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Again, this does not mean people should just pull themselves up. It does suggest that people could in principle learn coping mechanisms (through therapy etc.) to a degree that allows for leading a fulfilling life, even with PTSD manifesting physically in the brain.

[ntlk]

The brain can be reshaped again following trauma. The Body Keeps The Score is a book that talks through the effectiveness of different approaches to healing and how they impact brain changes.

[madaxe_again]

Yeah - I was recommended this shortly after I crashed out - good read, interesting insights, and I did find therapy helpful with the more conscious aspects of my collapse.

The bits that won’t go away are the dread, the insomnia, the constant anxious waiting for the sky to fall. I think I’ve pared off the behavioural bits over the years and have largely addressed them - but my mind continues to wrestle with intangible beasts.

My cousin has just qualified as a psychedelic therapist, so later this summer he’s visiting and we’re going to try breaking the cycle.

[taurath]

Trauma informed therapies can be really helpful though psychedelics look to be the most promising short term therapeutics, if they truly pan out. Things like EMDR and IFS can manage to really hit at the core of those intangibles beasts, and start to untangle the web.

[randycupertino]

The two books that helped me the most were The Depression Cure by Stephen Ilardi and Feeling Good by David Byrnes.

[prox]

But not all burn outs are the same. PTSD level burn outs do, but you also have other types that aren’t at that level. As always the answer is “it depends” and get professional help.

[madaxe_again]

Perhaps we should have different words for “I am maybe feeling a bit tired of doing the same thing every day” and “my brain is physically damaged from years of relentless 24/7 stress to the extent that basic functions like sleep elude me”.

[prox]

The military uses color codes, green, yellow, orange, red. Red is PTSD territory, a true brain break. But yellow, orange are bad as well, lots of people are in that zone without knowing until it is too late.

[gugagore]

I do not think it's scientific to claim the "brain is physically damaged from not-very-physiological-thing". We do have evidence for brain development that must occur before it is too late (e.g. critical window for language).

Sustained and elevated stress causes damage to the whole body, not just the brain. If understanding what you experienced as brain damage helps you accept how things happened and how things are, then all the more power to you.

But if there is something in your thought patterns that you want to change, but feel hopeless that your brain is damaged, I recommend trying to find another framing aside from "damage".

[Angostura]

Saying some problems are the result of learned associations and behaviours doesn't mean that all problems are.