[rdj]

Timely. We just, as in a few hours ago, wrapped up our season as owners of a u-cut tree farm. It's relatively small, just under 30 acres. But our family was just doing a post-mortem on what went well, what we need to change and making fairly detailed plans for next year and even several years out. I can tell you more then you want to know about the growing, spring/summer and fall care. The shaping. The labor to trim, drill, bag, etc. It's fascinating to see the impact 2008 had on planting and the resulting shortage of trees these past couple of years. I don't have any real point other than, been there, doing that, have the t-shirt, ask me anything. Oh, and this part of the farm is basically a side hustle to my normal 9-5 infosec job. Merry Christmas!

[ethbr0]

Are attractions at tree farms (that is to say, everything aside from trees) typically first-party (you) or external contractors?

I'd be fascinated in the experience value-add economics.

Said as someone who today bought a U-Cut 8' cypress ($56) at a local tree farm, a train ride (2x $2), baling ($2), three drinks + brownie + boiled peanuts (~$12). Thankfully, letting two quarantine-bored teenagers ride in the back of my truck around the farm was free. ;-)

[rdj]

Our place currently has limited attractions with several planned for next year. There is a gift shop that drives significant revenue, but was closed this year due to COVID. We offer free hot chocolate (small disposable cup). For the gift shop we have a multifaceted approach which includes buying things wholesale, making items in our shop, and partnering with other makers. Drilling and bailing is included in the price of the tree.

We are currently running the numbers to prepare for things like food/drink truck, sleigh rides, reindeer petting zoo, and some events.

[ethbr0]

Thanks for responding to all the questions her. Fascinating business!

And fwiw, the narrow-gauge railroad got a lot of attention from the kids. Not sure on the maintenance (especially per track-foot), but the engine appeared to have been homemade -- if you've had a burning desire to repurpose a small diesel.

[rdj]

We actually discussed a small train and decided to go with horse and sleigh next year, mostly because of upkeep and the ability to reuse that portion of the property for other things in the off season.

[fach]

What's the strategy (both logistically and financially) for dealing with the 8-10 year maturity cycle of the trees? Also, I'd imagine it provides some moat for preventing new competition into the market.

[rdj]

For us, the biggest issue is trying to forecast what additional non-agricultural projects we may be starting in the near future that would be adversely impacted by a specific piece of land being tied up for 10 years. For example, we're building an event center (weddings, meetings, etc) that will also include outdoor space. As we work through what that will be like, we have to anticipate how that outdoor space would be used if there are trees there or not. Other than that specific example, we try to anticipate sales volumes and then map out the experience...then order, plant and maintain new trees accordingly.

[cm2012]

By the way if you're looking for additional income streams, I know a place that does huge business with "pumpkin picking" (they buy commercial pumpkins and throw them on the ground in their property) as well as easter egg hunts (sample principle, with eggs with toys inside). It could work for you.

[rdj]

You must have tapped into our meeting...that's on the plan for next fall!

[secabeen]

Our local place makes a small corn maze to go along with the pumpkins; pretty fun!

[cm2012]

Do you make more money from tree sales or complementary experience sales? Like hot cider, etc.

[rdj]

Right now, trees and gift shop.

[fairity]

How do you expect market share between artificial and real trees to trend going forward?

From the outside looking in, the market share graph in the article seemed like cause for concern for farmers like yourself.

[rdj]

This gets into a bigger conversation about business models. For us, we are selling an experience that includes a tree. Artificial trees will not be able to replace that. But selling an experience is a low volume game and the revenue has to either be made up in price or via the addition of alternative revenue streams.

[dmurray]

Is theft/security an issue for you? Mature Christmas trees must be one of the highest-value crops you can steal from a farm, and one of the easiest to fence.

[beerandt]

One type of theft at choose and cut is often just cutting the top out of a much larger tree, and attempting to only pay for the size of what they cut.

People with 7-8' ceilings cut the top 6' out of a 12' tree bc they didn't like any of the younger trees.

[nradov]

The farm where I buy my Christmas trees charges the same flat price regardless of size.

[beerandt]

There are pros and cons to the different business models, but in this case, if you think of it as a matching/sorting type of problem, it's inefficient and wasteful, in a logistical/Nash equilibrium sort of way.

Which doesn't always mean it's the wrong way, from a business perspective. But if you're charging by height, it's leaving money on the table.

[rdj]

It's not an issue on our farm. We have eyes on most of the property most of the time. We also don't stock any precuts, so a thief has to come on the property and do some amount of work to steal a single tree.

[gruez]

>Mature Christmas trees must be one of the highest-value crops you can steal from a farm

If you have the equipment/motivation to steal christmas trees, you probably could be stealing animals too. Those are proabbly worth even more than christmas trees, probably several hundred dollars each.

[dmurray]

Harder to dispose of, though. You'll need to be in league with a crooked farmer, slaughterhouse or livestock mart if you want to sell the animal alive. You can sell Christmas trees on the side of the road, no questions asked.

[_2d30]

Successful season I assume? Seems like it's over early!

[rdj]

We cut our season off early due to the number of mature trees available. We're rebuilding and playing catchup. It was more important, particularly this year, that we were open rather than how many days. We get families that have been coming here for 30 years. If we miss a year being open, we risk losing them from coming back in the next few years. Our second metric was number of trees sold per day. We did meet or exceed both measurements.

[ethbr0]

Related to this, how do repeat-customers play in? I'm that a major target?

[beerandt]

My family tree farm has been closed over 20 years, and people still just show up looking for trees. About an hour drive from the (major) city. Sometimes while we're in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner.

Childhood memories are a strong psychological force.