[reaperducer]

There are so many of these work from home how-to articles because they're trendy, but almost never useful.

I worked from home for ten years, then back to the office for three, now back at home. I can tell you that what works for one person does not work for everyone.

For example, I am most productive in the morning, and wake up motivated and ready to work. For that reason, I don't take a shower until lunch, then use the afternoons to sort of wind-down with less productive things like meetings, reports, and such.

My father worked from home in the 80's. He was the opposite. He was better in the afternoon. Because of that, he had to force himself to take the mornings seriously. He did that by getting up every morning at 6am, doing the full getting-ready-for-the-office thing, and even went down to the corner store for coffee every day as a sort of "commute."

He would end up at 8am sitting in his home office in the laundry room in a full suit and tie ready for for the day, while I'm still in my sweatpants until after noon.

(Equipment-wise, from working home in the 80's was very different than it is today. Think a big desk with three rotary telephones, filing cabinets, a VFD calculator, and a Telex machine.)

[throwaway713]

What I find strange is all of the people who don't like working from home trying to talk everyone out of it, including the people who do want to work from home. Look at all of the comments on HN with people claiming that it doesn't work generally, rather than just for them specifically. I don't understand the mentality — "it doesn't work for me, therefore I'm going to actively work to make sure you have to come into the office too."

[Tade0]

They're afraid that this will become the norm and their office chit-chat times will be over for good.

Or worse: they don't like being at their own home, so the thought of staying there is terrifying.

That's at least what I've gathered from those I talked with.

I mean, if someone is saying that a 40min commute in high traffic still doesn't tip the balance in favour of remote work, then they apparently either really like being in the office, or really dislike staying home. Parents come to mind for the latter, but most of the people I've known who have 4+ children work remotely, so this doesn't add up.

[bitforger]

> Parents come to mind for the latter, but most of the people I've known who have 4+ children work remotely, so this doesn't add up.

It's multifaceted. It might be fine if you own a large enough home that you can have a dedicated working space, with a door.

Even without kids, I find it extremely difficult to work from home without a dedicated space. If I try to work from the living room, I end up doing living room things (like playing video games).

For some people, though, the idea of engineering your environment to change your behavior is either impractical or unheard of, which is what I think gives these people the general impression that "working effectively from home is impossible."

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

This is again very personal.

I love my kid crawling on me while I work, she sits on my lap and watches around or hug me a bit.

I work in the living room, my wife is there, my kid too. The desk is equipped for work, to be clear (good chair, screens etc.), I occasionally play games on it in the evenings (not often, to be fair) and I work in my "home clothes". Been doing this for over 10 years now.

I have my rules: if I don't work enough or I see I lose focus often, I'll work more hours. If I work too much, I'll work less the next day.

The other day I was even shocked realizing how much time people spend chatting at work, my day seemed more intense at home than their at the office.

To everyone its own. My style has been working great and a hug or cuddle from wife/kid is a great boost to my productivity!

[ghaff]

When I'm in my house by myself (which is usually during the work week), I'll work in different places around the house. (For much of what I do, a laptop is all I really need.) However, I do have a dedicated office with a door and, if other people are present it makes a huge difference in terms of distraction. I suppose I could adjust to an "open office plan" at home but having a dedicated (though not just dedicated to work) office is very useful.

[throwaway743]

I would also add that there are those who suffer from "imposter syndrome" and prefer to be in the office, simply to show face/"butts in chairs", give a song and dance, and speak at audible levels to give coworkers/management the perception that they're busting their ass.

For those types, maintaining their position means endlessly manufacturing superficial validation. It's a game of perception.

[ghaff]

The other thing that goes on is that some number of people want to live (and get well-compensated for living) in certain expensive coastal cities. And they hate the idea that companies might decide that they're not going to crowd into those places so dogmatically any longer if people can productively mostly work remotely.

[Tade0]

I'm currently temporarily in a place where people also crowd and salaries are on par with those expensive coastal cities.

I see where they're coming from because it's still somewhat surreal to me, but I want to go home.

Which brings me to another point: there's something off about this. Most of the cost of living compensation appears to address the cost of real estate, which is artificially inflated in the first place.

Why do companies still do that if all they achieve is pumping the local housing prices even more?

[tjoff]

Colleagues working from home affects those in the office...

There are certain types of communication that are vastly superior to do in person that can get quite tedious over text or phone. A 2 minute quick talk can save tons of time.

Now if my colleague is working from home I get the that same disadvantage from working from home - even when I'm still in the office. Many of the downsides people list here with working from home will be shared by those who are still in the office.

[thomas232233]

In my experience middle level managers are the gate keepers to work from home. Developers are willing to work from home, while managers especially people managers are afraid their work might be perceived by the company as unnecessary. If WFH has to become norm then company should assure managers their job security.

[JDiculous]

You could have a 2 minute chat remotely

[tjoff]

I certainly would hope so. The point is that it wouldn't be nearly enough or as efficient.

[feanaro]

Then we work on the technology to make it efficient.

Remote work will have to become much more common in the future. It makes absolutely no sense to waste so much time and energy on commutes.

[tjoff]

Always a good idea. But the entire company culture needs to adapt for it to work. The conundrum as to why anyone in office would care isn't that hard to figure out.

Personally I would look for another job.

I love being able to work from home, when I'm recovering from being ill or if it somehow makes life easier on a particular day. Will probably come in handy during this crisis as well - so I'm very thankful of it.

But 363 times out of 365 I much prefer to work in office. And that is with the assumption that I won't be alone...

[asjw]

There are things that technology can't replace

Like talking to a room where people are actually present and to 20 people each from their laptop, with the mic muted and the video turned off

It's much harder to 'read the room' and much is lost

And I certainly love working from home and don't fancy socializing much when at work

But technology made a lot of work-related things harder or worse

[ivanhoe]

How exactly is video call different than face to face in transferring information? I admit being in the same room has different socio-psychological benefits, but in almost 20 years of me working fully remote most of the time, I've never encountered the problem that couldn't be explained by screen-sharing or on a virtual white-board just as good as in person?

[kingludite]

I know from marketing that people should be considered different people in person at home, in person at work, in person at their client's, on the phone, on the web cam 1 on 1, on the cam with multiple people, in text messages. Further modification happens depending on who participate in the conversation.

The funniest example I know is a guy who will first call people then when they say NO in no uncertain terms and hang up on him he drives there and asks exactly the same thing. He frequently describes how both him and the prospect pretend the rude phone call never happened.

He one time needed 100 plants for a stage of a theater performance. On the phone the grower refused to rent them to him, he didn't want to name a price, just NO. In person he immediately agreed to do it for free.

[christophilus]

I find that my power poses are less intimidating over video.

[tjoff]

In every conceivable aspect? Maybe after 20 years one learns to adapt.

[throwaway98797]

Some people are better communicators in person while others are better using written communication.

Working from home changes the relative value of certain skills. It make sense why people would be resistant to their own devaluing.

The work place is competitive and no one likes to see the rules of game change in way that disadvantages themselves.

[thomas232233]

People who are not good at writing can always use skype, I dont understand why its so difficult to think of. It's a solved problem a long time ago.

[throwaway98797]

Video not the same as in person. If it is for you then maybe you don’t appreciate some aspects of in person communication.

[kovac]

I think it's the social aspect of it. There are people who feel lonely at home and really need some people around them most of the time. I enjoy wfh usually. It just takes overall less energy since no commute, can take a nap if I'm tired and catch up to it later if I'm really tired or take a quick cold shower in the middle of the day, step outside to a nice coffeeshop for an afternoon tea. I'm an engineer, so I usually enjoy the actual quiet in my room when I'm working. For some, having people around them is more important than the freedom, flexibility and relaxation they can get at home. Too bad :)

[asjw]

There is also a human factor: most people don't like living in the same cage where they work 24 hours a day

Family life is mostly about sharing the events of the day

Working home is pretty uneventful and that aspect can be stressful

I worked home for 13 of my 23 years career, loved them and still do it, but my best years have been the 3 years I left all my jobs to go touring around Europe as roadie

Being part of a team that shares a common goal but also solves everyday mundane tasks together like finding a place to eat that's ok for everybody or fixing a flat tire gives a lot more meaning to what one does

[codetrotter]

People are like this with everything, I think.

For example, a lot of people will be like this or that operating system is trash and you shouldn’t use it. And I am ashamed to admit that years ago I used to be this way too.

While I understand where people are coming from when they act that way, it is still frustrating and I wish it wasn’t like that.

[ido]

Try telling people you're vegan (doesn't matter if you are or aren't) & leaving it at that. A significant portion will think you're judging them & try to talk you out of it or say why it's a bad thing.

[duggan]

I mean, isn’t a large part of veganism an ethical stance against killing sentient creatures? It’s hard to see how that wouldn’t involve judging others to some degree.

[feanaro]

It is possible to have a stance on something, choose to act on it and still not judge others for not behaving in the same way. You do this by acknowledging that you still may be the one with the "wrong" stance (whatever that means) and by having compassion for others that may not have had the same insights you did.

[ido]

Right, I have a lot of stances that a lot of people don't hold & I manage to "live and let live".

Ultimately I think we're all responsible for our own morals & I generally don't get worked up about people having different ideas (notwithstanding such that deny my right to exist, such as antisemites).

[Symbiote]

There are also people trying to reduce their environmental impact (so also an ethical stance).

But there are some who have allergies, and it can be easier for them to choose a vegan restaurant to be certain there's no lactose / egg contamination.

[ido]

Do you feel the same about people who believe in a religion other than yours (or any religion if you're not a believer)?

[duggan]

I think that would depend on the religion, but generally I don't think the comparison is equivalent.

I'd always thought the primary difference between vegetarians and vegans was ethical, rather than dietary. That part of the ethics of veganism is opposition to the mechanised slaughter of individuals that should have the same, or similar, rights to people.

Maybe this is more of a fringe belief as vegan options become mainstream?

[AmericanChopper]

Well one thing to consider is that in addition to whether or not working at home works for you, there is also the question of whether your working at home works for everybody else. How does one or more people working from home affect the other people on the team? How does one or more people working from home affect the productivity, culture, communication, and collaboration of the team? The answers to those questions could be in a negative, positive or neutral way for any particular person/team. Some of my colleagues are quite frustrating when they work from home due to their own personal communication style, whereas they may personally find it very rewarding.

[spurdoman77]

I think it is most common for an employee to try to talk their employer to accept remote work. Other way around is more rare and there is not that much talk if the employer decides to decide against it.

[fatnoah]

>What I find strange is all of the people who don't like working from home trying to talk everyone out of it

Yeah, that makes no sense. I don't like working from home, but I want as many people as possible to work from home. That makes my commute so much better!

[dingo_bat]

I don't like wfh because I don't like being all alone at home all day. But my preference for office hinges upon the presence of other people in office too! That's why I encourage everyone to come to office and work.

[telesilla]

Perhaps find a good video chat solution, it's not safe to come to work right now and hopefully you'll find having chat gives you the sense of being with others that you need.

[chrisseaton]

> I don't like being all alone at home all day

Why should other people come in just because you need entertainment?

Maybe make some relationships outside work?

[cameronbrown]

As I said in a sibling comment, these aren't mutually exclusive.

We spend the majority of our lives at work -- spending that alone in my spare room/coffee shop/wherever just sounds like a nightmare long-term.

I think as long as humans are social animals, remote working will stay niche and optional at best.

[Packofbezens]

Social interaction in one's free time is a matter of preference - you can stay home alone, or ring up a friend and go for a coffee.

Maybe eventually people can find a group of friends/acquaintances with which they can also hang out and have a coffee, while each tends to their own work?

[sethev]

The specifics are often not useful but one thing you'll notice is that people who made it work have some kind of a schedule that they stick to. 'Flexible schedule' can be misinterpreted as 'changing all the time'. When I see people trying that, they usually end up moving on.

'Stick to some schedule' is pretty portable advice. It sounds like you and your father both did that.

[greyskull]

Mirroring your comment, I have found both through personal experience and through anecdotes of others that forcing yourself into routines has benefits in all kinds of situations. Make your bed every morning, do your full hygiene routine, change out of your sleeping clothes, and so on. Helps with depression and monotony among others. I'm not surprised to see it valid here, it's universal.

[friendlybus]

I have found the opposite. Having come from managing front line retail and routine office jobs, I know that routines and schedules become a mindless stifling prison. It's remarkably oppressive to mark out every cent of your life, every action you can take for the next year of your life onto an excel spreadsheet, knowing it's your responsibility to adhere to an endless grind and make sure everyone under you adheres to the same grind.

The option to pursue an exciting and highly rewarding goal for a few days without having to think about what the Joneses think about the particularities of my dressing habits or adherence to a schedule can be a great gain.

[e12e]

How does forcing yourself into routines help with monotony?

[vladvasiliu]

I would say it depends on the routine, but if it's something you can do every day, it breaks up the day in several pieces, and you get to do different things per any given day instead of just one activity.

In my case, when I was in college, there would be days on end where I wouldn't leave my dorm. I'd hang around in pjs doing pretty much the same thing all day long: get in front of the computer, do whatever, eat in front of the computer, continue doing whatever, get the laptop in bed, fall asleep. Repeat the next day. After a while I really had the impression of "doing nothing" or of "always doing the same thing".

Nowadays, when I work from home, I get up, make the bed, put my workout clothes on, do my workout routine, take a shower, eat a protein shake, get dressed "for work" (ie put on a clean tshirt so as to be presentable on a video call), get in front of the computer, start up Teams and get to work. I try to take a break every hour or so to move around a bit (do some push-ups / pull-ups), drink a glass of water, look out the window, then get back to work. Around 6 PM, when the office hours are done, I finish up whatever I'm doing then quit Teams, quit the mail program, and I'm done for the day.

Now YMMV, but I find that the days when I go straight to work and just do the work part, sometimes still in my pjs as in college, I really get the feeling that I've accomplished less. I find that for me, breaking up the day with some activities helps to not perceive it as being monotonous, just doing one thing all day long. At least for me it's important for whatever breaks I take to not just be in front of the computer, like browsing hn or whatever. That's why I like moving around a bit and looking out the window.

This is something that I'm not as likely to do in the office. There are more distractions, even though I'm not in a proper open space, so it takes me more time to "get in the zone" and I'm also less inclined to break it whenever I'm in it cause I never now when I'll be able to get back. Also, I enjoy calm during my breaks, so people on the phone or talking to each other and other random noises are more likely than not to stop me from walking around outside the office.

[0xEFF]

For me, they create space and bank emotional energy to better enjoy the non-routine things in life.

[mirimir]

YMMV, but my diurnal cycle is >>24hr when I'm working hard. And I take frequent short naps.

[ghaff]

In my case, it doesn't need to be a rigid schedule. I might get up at 6. I might get up at 9. I may do a little work in the evening. I may not. I may run some errands scheduled around whatever meetings I have. But, for the most part, I do something that approximates a typical work day.

[namelosw]

I thought I'm also much more motivated in the morning.

But since I been WFH for a while (thanks for the COVID-19), surprisingly I found if I took 30 mins nap both at noon and dusk, I would extend the motivated period to the most of the day! It's a game-changer for me, and it's not much a loss because I can sleep less at night because I trade to the day.

I'm a ADD person, it feels like the dopamine would exhaust after hours, and a nap would reset it for a while.

[emmelaich]

> I can tell you that what works for one person does not work for everyone.

Did you read the article? Because that's one thing he emphasises.

Here's my tips.

1. Use mute, often

2. If it's meeting, it's a meeting. Don't have everyone looking at their screens rather than listening.

3. Get some light-weight headphones that you can wear for a long time. I have the classic Sennheiser px-200. You can't seem to buy similar headphones anymore, particularly not wireless.

4. The "watercooler" always-on vidcon idea is a good one.

[wdb]

My dad had a IBM 5160 XT and later a IBM Model 80 when he was working from home in the 80s. I can still remember we were allowed to play Need for Speed or Flight Simulator on it for a half hour per week.

That were the days. Much later in the 90s this changed to be allowed to be on CompuServe in the evening for a half hour. I can still remember going to GO MAXIS :)

[quelltext]

Need for Speed in the 80s?

[giancarlostoro]

I was wondering the same... Maybe thinking of a different racing game?

[dole]

Test Drive?

[mixmastamyk]

I do remember a CGA driving game on the PC in all it’s four-color glory. Pink, teal, black and white.

[wdb]

Yeah, probably it was Test Drive instead of Need for Speed.

[warp]

Test Drive maybe (1987) ?

[7177Y]

Having a faux commute is a common sentiment. I know someone who wish leave his front door and come back in through the side door to recontectualize themself.

[mirimir]

> He would end up at 8am sitting in his home office in the laundry room in a full suit and tie ready for for the day, while I'm still in my sweatpants until after noon.

Given that changing faces real time in video is doable now, wouldn't it be trivial to fake business dress? Or even (Dog forbid) shaving.

[sokoloff]

I read it as he was doing it to get himself into “work mode”. Video processing isn’t a substitute for that.

[cm2187]

Unless you mess up the webcam’s angle, you don’t really need to wear pants (aka Donald Duck’s outfit).

[mcpeepants]

real-time, not really. but it's pretty easy to be business casual or more from just the waist up.

[Invictus0]

Did you read the article? It is broadly applicable to everyone. Having a proper chair and communication equipment and distraction free working area are all great points.