[throwaway713]

What I find strange is all of the people who don't like working from home trying to talk everyone out of it, including the people who do want to work from home. Look at all of the comments on HN with people claiming that it doesn't work generally, rather than just for them specifically. I don't understand the mentality — "it doesn't work for me, therefore I'm going to actively work to make sure you have to come into the office too."

[Tade0]

They're afraid that this will become the norm and their office chit-chat times will be over for good.

Or worse: they don't like being at their own home, so the thought of staying there is terrifying.

That's at least what I've gathered from those I talked with.

I mean, if someone is saying that a 40min commute in high traffic still doesn't tip the balance in favour of remote work, then they apparently either really like being in the office, or really dislike staying home. Parents come to mind for the latter, but most of the people I've known who have 4+ children work remotely, so this doesn't add up.

[bitforger]

> Parents come to mind for the latter, but most of the people I've known who have 4+ children work remotely, so this doesn't add up.

It's multifaceted. It might be fine if you own a large enough home that you can have a dedicated working space, with a door.

Even without kids, I find it extremely difficult to work from home without a dedicated space. If I try to work from the living room, I end up doing living room things (like playing video games).

For some people, though, the idea of engineering your environment to change your behavior is either impractical or unheard of, which is what I think gives these people the general impression that "working effectively from home is impossible."

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

This is again very personal.

I love my kid crawling on me while I work, she sits on my lap and watches around or hug me a bit.

I work in the living room, my wife is there, my kid too. The desk is equipped for work, to be clear (good chair, screens etc.), I occasionally play games on it in the evenings (not often, to be fair) and I work in my "home clothes". Been doing this for over 10 years now.

I have my rules: if I don't work enough or I see I lose focus often, I'll work more hours. If I work too much, I'll work less the next day.

The other day I was even shocked realizing how much time people spend chatting at work, my day seemed more intense at home than their at the office.

To everyone its own. My style has been working great and a hug or cuddle from wife/kid is a great boost to my productivity!

[ghaff]

When I'm in my house by myself (which is usually during the work week), I'll work in different places around the house. (For much of what I do, a laptop is all I really need.) However, I do have a dedicated office with a door and, if other people are present it makes a huge difference in terms of distraction. I suppose I could adjust to an "open office plan" at home but having a dedicated (though not just dedicated to work) office is very useful.

[throwaway743]

I would also add that there are those who suffer from "imposter syndrome" and prefer to be in the office, simply to show face/"butts in chairs", give a song and dance, and speak at audible levels to give coworkers/management the perception that they're busting their ass.

For those types, maintaining their position means endlessly manufacturing superficial validation. It's a game of perception.

[ghaff]

The other thing that goes on is that some number of people want to live (and get well-compensated for living) in certain expensive coastal cities. And they hate the idea that companies might decide that they're not going to crowd into those places so dogmatically any longer if people can productively mostly work remotely.

[Tade0]

I'm currently temporarily in a place where people also crowd and salaries are on par with those expensive coastal cities.

I see where they're coming from because it's still somewhat surreal to me, but I want to go home.

Which brings me to another point: there's something off about this. Most of the cost of living compensation appears to address the cost of real estate, which is artificially inflated in the first place.

Why do companies still do that if all they achieve is pumping the local housing prices even more?

[tjoff]

Colleagues working from home affects those in the office...

There are certain types of communication that are vastly superior to do in person that can get quite tedious over text or phone. A 2 minute quick talk can save tons of time.

Now if my colleague is working from home I get the that same disadvantage from working from home - even when I'm still in the office. Many of the downsides people list here with working from home will be shared by those who are still in the office.

[thomas232233]

In my experience middle level managers are the gate keepers to work from home. Developers are willing to work from home, while managers especially people managers are afraid their work might be perceived by the company as unnecessary. If WFH has to become norm then company should assure managers their job security.

[JDiculous]

You could have a 2 minute chat remotely

[tjoff]

I certainly would hope so. The point is that it wouldn't be nearly enough or as efficient.

[feanaro]

Then we work on the technology to make it efficient.

Remote work will have to become much more common in the future. It makes absolutely no sense to waste so much time and energy on commutes.

[tjoff]

Always a good idea. But the entire company culture needs to adapt for it to work. The conundrum as to why anyone in office would care isn't that hard to figure out.

Personally I would look for another job.

I love being able to work from home, when I'm recovering from being ill or if it somehow makes life easier on a particular day. Will probably come in handy during this crisis as well - so I'm very thankful of it.

But 363 times out of 365 I much prefer to work in office. And that is with the assumption that I won't be alone...

[feanaro]

It seems to me that almost everyone prefers having the ability to work from home at some times and work remotely at other times. Also, there are clearly preferences around this, such that a given person might prefer one of the other more (or most) of the time.

Taking this into account, along with the undeniable time and energy benefits of remote work, I think companies should start preparing for, allowing and offering remote work. It should become normalized, so that people who want to work from home on some days should be able to.

Importantly though, I don't think it makes sense for most companies to try to completely switch to remote work. Eventually, I think this will lead to a stable equilibrium of some significant percentage of people working from home and a significant percentage coming to work, on a given day. Except for companies which deliberately want to be remote-only, I doubt it would ever result in no one coming to the office.

This seems like a win-win. It reduces the burden of commuting for those that do not want it or cannot manage it on a given day, it gives people more free time, it lessens energy expenditure, but there's still an office to come to and socialize, interact directly and do immediate in-person business, just with a bit less people than usual.

[asjw]

There are things that technology can't replace

Like talking to a room where people are actually present and to 20 people each from their laptop, with the mic muted and the video turned off

It's much harder to 'read the room' and much is lost

And I certainly love working from home and don't fancy socializing much when at work

But technology made a lot of work-related things harder or worse

[feanaro]

I appreciate what you're saying and I agree that it's very hard, but I think it may be too quick to chalk it up as being impossible.

In fact, things like making the room easier to read despite using a camera is exactly what I was talking about. It is definitely the case with today's systems where you simply have a camera on the lid of the laptop and display many individual images of people on the screen. This does look very unnatural.

For instance, one very distracting aspect of this is that it is impossible for two people to be looking into each other's eyes as they are communicating, since the image and the camera are not aligned. Solving this would at least make addressing a single person over a video call much more natural. Perhaps we could somehow place a camera behind the screen? Will volumetric display technology make it easier once it is more widespread?

And this is just one problem that we can identify. I'm sure there are many other subtle cues missing from a video call which could be identified and then hopefully fixed.

[ivanhoe]

How exactly is video call different than face to face in transferring information? I admit being in the same room has different socio-psychological benefits, but in almost 20 years of me working fully remote most of the time, I've never encountered the problem that couldn't be explained by screen-sharing or on a virtual white-board just as good as in person?

[kingludite]

I know from marketing that people should be considered different people in person at home, in person at work, in person at their client's, on the phone, on the web cam 1 on 1, on the cam with multiple people, in text messages. Further modification happens depending on who participate in the conversation.

The funniest example I know is a guy who will first call people then when they say NO in no uncertain terms and hang up on him he drives there and asks exactly the same thing. He frequently describes how both him and the prospect pretend the rude phone call never happened.

He one time needed 100 plants for a stage of a theater performance. On the phone the grower refused to rent them to him, he didn't want to name a price, just NO. In person he immediately agreed to do it for free.

[christophilus]

I find that my power poses are less intimidating over video.

[tjoff]

In every conceivable aspect? Maybe after 20 years one learns to adapt.

[throwaway98797]

Some people are better communicators in person while others are better using written communication.

Working from home changes the relative value of certain skills. It make sense why people would be resistant to their own devaluing.

The work place is competitive and no one likes to see the rules of game change in way that disadvantages themselves.

[thomas232233]

People who are not good at writing can always use skype, I dont understand why its so difficult to think of. It's a solved problem a long time ago.

[throwaway98797]

Video not the same as in person. If it is for you then maybe you don’t appreciate some aspects of in person communication.

[kovac]

I think it's the social aspect of it. There are people who feel lonely at home and really need some people around them most of the time. I enjoy wfh usually. It just takes overall less energy since no commute, can take a nap if I'm tired and catch up to it later if I'm really tired or take a quick cold shower in the middle of the day, step outside to a nice coffeeshop for an afternoon tea. I'm an engineer, so I usually enjoy the actual quiet in my room when I'm working. For some, having people around them is more important than the freedom, flexibility and relaxation they can get at home. Too bad :)

[asjw]

There is also a human factor: most people don't like living in the same cage where they work 24 hours a day

Family life is mostly about sharing the events of the day

Working home is pretty uneventful and that aspect can be stressful

I worked home for 13 of my 23 years career, loved them and still do it, but my best years have been the 3 years I left all my jobs to go touring around Europe as roadie

Being part of a team that shares a common goal but also solves everyday mundane tasks together like finding a place to eat that's ok for everybody or fixing a flat tire gives a lot more meaning to what one does

[codetrotter]

People are like this with everything, I think.

For example, a lot of people will be like this or that operating system is trash and you shouldn’t use it. And I am ashamed to admit that years ago I used to be this way too.

While I understand where people are coming from when they act that way, it is still frustrating and I wish it wasn’t like that.

[ido]

Try telling people you're vegan (doesn't matter if you are or aren't) & leaving it at that. A significant portion will think you're judging them & try to talk you out of it or say why it's a bad thing.

[duggan]

I mean, isn’t a large part of veganism an ethical stance against killing sentient creatures? It’s hard to see how that wouldn’t involve judging others to some degree.

[feanaro]

It is possible to have a stance on something, choose to act on it and still not judge others for not behaving in the same way. You do this by acknowledging that you still may be the one with the "wrong" stance (whatever that means) and by having compassion for others that may not have had the same insights you did.

[ido]

Right, I have a lot of stances that a lot of people don't hold & I manage to "live and let live".

Ultimately I think we're all responsible for our own morals & I generally don't get worked up about people having different ideas (notwithstanding such that deny my right to exist, such as antisemites).

[Symbiote]

There are also people trying to reduce their environmental impact (so also an ethical stance).

But there are some who have allergies, and it can be easier for them to choose a vegan restaurant to be certain there's no lactose / egg contamination.

[ido]

Do you feel the same about people who believe in a religion other than yours (or any religion if you're not a believer)?

[duggan]

I think that would depend on the religion, but generally I don't think the comparison is equivalent.

I'd always thought the primary difference between vegetarians and vegans was ethical, rather than dietary. That part of the ethics of veganism is opposition to the mechanised slaughter of individuals that should have the same, or similar, rights to people.

Maybe this is more of a fringe belief as vegan options become mainstream?

[AmericanChopper]

Well one thing to consider is that in addition to whether or not working at home works for you, there is also the question of whether your working at home works for everybody else. How does one or more people working from home affect the other people on the team? How does one or more people working from home affect the productivity, culture, communication, and collaboration of the team? The answers to those questions could be in a negative, positive or neutral way for any particular person/team. Some of my colleagues are quite frustrating when they work from home due to their own personal communication style, whereas they may personally find it very rewarding.

[spurdoman77]

I think it is most common for an employee to try to talk their employer to accept remote work. Other way around is more rare and there is not that much talk if the employer decides to decide against it.

[fatnoah]

>What I find strange is all of the people who don't like working from home trying to talk everyone out of it

Yeah, that makes no sense. I don't like working from home, but I want as many people as possible to work from home. That makes my commute so much better!

[dingo_bat]

I don't like wfh because I don't like being all alone at home all day. But my preference for office hinges upon the presence of other people in office too! That's why I encourage everyone to come to office and work.

[telesilla]

Perhaps find a good video chat solution, it's not safe to come to work right now and hopefully you'll find having chat gives you the sense of being with others that you need.

[chrisseaton]

> I don't like being all alone at home all day

Why should other people come in just because you need entertainment?

Maybe make some relationships outside work?

[cameronbrown]

As I said in a sibling comment, these aren't mutually exclusive.

We spend the majority of our lives at work -- spending that alone in my spare room/coffee shop/wherever just sounds like a nightmare long-term.

I think as long as humans are social animals, remote working will stay niche and optional at best.

[Packofbezens]

Social interaction in one's free time is a matter of preference - you can stay home alone, or ring up a friend and go for a coffee.

Maybe eventually people can find a group of friends/acquaintances with which they can also hang out and have a coffee, while each tends to their own work?