[dogcow]

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be.

I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started.

Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual tablet (1-3 mg), makes me feel a bit sleepier, but doesn't often keep me asleep through the night. When swallowed via a capsule, it makes me feel like I've been hit by a bus for the entirety of the next day, even if I slept the night before.

My own research led me to magnesium glycinate, which helped to some degree (maybe I wasn't taking enough?), but didn't solve the problem. My biggest trouble is falling asleep - I can be dead tired, but as soon as I'm in bed, my mind goes nuts, and I lie awake for hours. Then, by the time my body is in nice deep sleep, it's time to get up, and the deep sleep is disrupted.

I recently had an appointment with my physician (who practices integrative medicine and is not your typical MD), and he told me to try a relatively new formulation of magnesium called Magnesium L-Threonate, commercially known as Magtein.

It is apparently the best type of magnesium for crossing the blood-brain barrier, and thus, likely the best at addressing sleep issues.

I've been on it for about a week now (taking 1000mg 2 hours before bed and 1000mg upon waking in the morning), and have slept better in the last two nights than I have for a long time. Here's to hoping it keeps working!

I also use a couple other hacks to help me sleep - at night, about an hour after the sun sets, I wear "blue blocking" glasses (the UVEX S0360X fit nicely over my prescription glasses). Sounds (and looks) goofy, but for me it creates a noticeably stronger "sleep pressure" than I'd experience without them. I also wear a mask over my eyes when sleeping, to block out any ambient light, and I just started making an effort to listen to music while waiting to fall asleep. I think all of these things help to some degree.

Also, check out the book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker.

[vlasev]

Have you got checked for sleep apnea?

Have you tried sleeping elsewhere? On a couch? What about sleeping in a semi-seated position? Would that work?

How's your weight? Does it go up or down?

Finally, if you are in bed for 30 minutes and you haven't fallen asleep, it's probably way better to either get up and do some stuff or to just accept that you won't be sleeping and just stay there and go through your imagination.

[ukulele]

What you've just described also sounds a lot like sleep apnea. Healthy, non-snorers can have it so might be worth doing a quick test.

[anonu]

Sleep apnea is one of the biggest unsolved problems in medicine. It effects 1 in 4 people and there's no good solution for it. I think this is an area where technology (and not drugs or surgery) can make a big difference.

[BurningFrog]

You're half right. It's very common and very untreated.

But for most people, a CPAP machine is a great solution. There are few other serious medical conditions that can be more thoroughly addressed!

If you might have it, you really should look into it, there is a good chance your life can be turned around and improved more than you (pun intended) could dream of. Mine was!

Modern CPAP machines are quiet, comfortable, and only cover your nostrils. And they can save your life!

[GW150914]

My friend is a terrible snorer, but I noticed one day when he fell asleep on the couch, that he’d stop snoring, then do this big gasping snore. It was really scary actually! I told him about it, he did a sleep study, and he turned out to have bad apnea. A few months of cpap therapy and he’s a new man. He used to pretty much fall asleep any time he sat down and did nothing, he was always tired, he needed a brass band to wake him up. Now he’s full of piss and vinegar, gets more work done, and he’s just a lot happier.

The test is apparently easy and you can do it at home with a device you get from your doctor and wear overnight, and his machine fits in the palm of one hand is basically silent. Anyone who thinks this is a possibility for them, I agree with you, get checked!

[cirgue]

If you haven’t already, try doing an all-day physical activity (all-day hike, bike ride, or some other physical recreational activity) one day a week. For me, that made it a lot easier to start working out more.

[xzel]

This is going to be a totally anecdotal post: In my twenties I had the same problem when waking up, slept 7-8 hours, worked out, good job, super healthy diet but woke up exhausted, miserable, and borderline depressed 9/10 days. It took two years and lot of blood tests over time but turns out I had Hashimoto's disease, which lead to hypothyroidism. It is rare for someone in their 20s but I guess I beat the odds :), although it dose affect about 5% of the population at some time. My point here is your story seems very similar to mine (i.e possible thyroid issue) so maybe talk to your Dr about the possibility, especially if this has been a long term issue.

[gytdev]

I feel the same way brother. And it took me 10 years to diagnose it. Just took one good GP

[didgeoridoo]

It’s recommended in Walker’s book so you probably already know about it, but CBTI (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia) might be a useful intervention for you based on the difficulties you’ve described.

[kdelok]

Do you find it easier to fall asleep at other times than when you choose to go to bed? It might be that you have delayed sleep phase syndrome, or (less likely) a non-24 hour sleep phase issue.

My partner is non-24 and generally manages a "normal" schedule. However, she sometimes has to roll her sleep, where she'll go to bed an average of 1.5 hours later each day, until she's back to going to bed around 10.

When she is holding her sleep schedule steady she uses light goggles in the morning (literally goggles with bright reflected lights on them) and low-dose melatonin at night (can't remember the exact dose). She also watches her meal times relative to when she wants to go to sleep. I think these things would be useful for someone without the non-24 issues, but are good sleep hygiene things.

[newnewpdro]

Do you consume stimulants like caffeine?

[mtgx]

Check your Vitamin D levels, just out of curiosity, before giving Vitamin D3 a try. This doctor here says you need to be at 60-80 ng/ml D3 in the blood to get very restful sleep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF24xmJQK1k

Also, D3 and Magnesium work very well together. In fact, if you add more D3, it's going to use-up even more magnesium.

[gonehome]

60-80 seems absurd to me considering you’d be unlikely to hit that spending all day outside in the sun topless in Hawaii.

[dalore]

Like you, following a very similar diet of high quality animal fats and no carbs (banting). I to would have racing minds when in bed. Best thing I found (and this will sound cliche) is meditation. It's pretty much set for helping racing minds.

[victor106]

Not sure if minimal fruit counts as a healthy diet

[theptip]

It does, assuming you're getting enough vegetables; fruit is mostly sugar (high glycemic load which causes crashes, promotes diabetes, etc.), so not actually that good for you on the macronutrient level.

[anonuser123456]

Uh not really. Most fruit is both low to medium GI and GL. Sugar in fruit is bound to fiber and bloodstream uptake is fairly slow.

There is a negative correlation between RDA fruit consumption and diabetes.

[gassiss]

I'm wondering why you're flagged. Yes, fruits have sugar (fructose), but when you're eating the fruit whole your comment is on point. The fiber in the fruit makes the sugar absorption slower.

Of course if you're drinking 2L of juice a day you're gonna have a problem, as you would going ham on any kind of food. (ANY)

[dalore]

Correlation does not equal causation. People who generally eat less fruit are people who usually ignore health advice in general, and would replace fruit with stuff like sugar or carbs. Eating too much fruit gives an overload of fructose, which also triggers an insulin response.

If you eat the right meats, like liver, you get more vitamins and minerals then you would from fruit. So if you know what you are eating, it's fine to cut off fruit.

[anonuser123456]

>Eating too much fruit gives an overload of fructose,

Note the operative modifier 'too much'

You can eat your recommended daily intake of fruit in one sitting with no other food and still remain below high GL levels.

Digestion is a complex process. Your model that anything containing fructose is bad is not supported by any data / analysis I am aware of, and contradicted by nearly all of it.

Mammals process most of thier fructose consumption in their small intestines. Only high doses that overload this capacity lead to harmful spillover to the liver etc.

[gotrecruit]

fruit is not healthy for you, contrary to what you may have traditionally heard. you can get everything you need, vitamins and minerals wise, from vegetables, without the sugar that comes with fruits.

[vcjohnson]

>fruit is not healthy for you

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801

Fruit consumption is inversely correlated with all-cause mortality as best we can tell. Probably something to be said about people who eat fruits being among the more health minded individuals as well and skewing results but it’s probably not “unhealthy” to eat fruits.

[dalore]

Correlation doesn't mean cause. Otherwise you would draw conclusions like divorce rates in Maine affected by margarine consumption.

https://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703

People consuming fruit could be more healthy individuals in general, exercising and avoiding other types of food which might have more effect than consuming fruit. So be careful about drawing conclusions from correlations or epidemiological studies as you have to consider other possibilities.

[vcjohnson]

But I didn’t imply causation? I literally gave the same “could be skewed due to healthier lifestyle choices” in my comment...

[johnchristopher]

Hey, you are on HN. The opportunity to shine the `correlation isn't causation` was too strong. /s

[bluedino]

Try some carbs