[johansch]

A lot of things wouldn't have. Top of my list:

a) keeping the macbook air non-retina (for like five years after PC laptops were retina, even after the incremental cost for the feature was very, very close to zero due to industry-wide cost reductions in display/chipset tech)

b) shipping the new macbook pro with the touch bar

c) shipping the new macbook pro with that keyboard that just breaks down when used outside of a cleanroom

d) the whole luxuary/jewelry transition of the company

[iainmerrick]

d) the whole luxury/jewelry transition of the company

This Steve Jobs? https://www.cultofmac.com/270831/steve-jobs-luxury-yacht-spo...

I don't know where people get the idea that Jobs was always right. He was a master of changing his entire opinion on a dime (usually for good reasons, to be fair) but still acting as if he'd been right the whole time.

[johansch]

I really don't see the correlation between his product design/marketing/pricing choices and him owning a yacht? Are you saying I thought he was a closet socialist/communist? (No, I did not. (hah))

The whole thing is that being a jewelry company is intensely boring and mentally uninspiring. Not pushing things forward in any way or manner. Just making them more luxorious in order to increase the margin of the existing market.

How many iterations before we see diamond-encrusted iPhones?

[mikeash]

e) Making product lineups huge and confusing. Once the X becomes available, they'll have eight different models of iPhone you can buy, and that's not even counting different colors or storage options.

[johansch]

Yeah, this choice has been bothering me insanely the last year. I am still on a 5s simply because I can't choose the right model/time. ;(

Still, in my mind, the largest betrayal of Steve's legacy is the way the affordable and awesome Macbook Air design was left to rot. It was such a liberating and democratic thing that the best laptop money could buy cost less than a thousand USD.

The low price also afforded you to not treat them as super expensive objects (which was also liberating) - I actually managed to physically kill two or three of them over the years, until I moved to a 13" MBP this spring. Which I now have to protect like a jewel, which I hate doing. I want my work station to be a tank, not a fashion piece.

All because Apple without Steve couldn't/wouldn't take risks and be innovative (in pricing) in order to expand in the laptop market. Safer for the margins to avoid expanding the user base and instead just milk the already converted suckers.

[johansch]

(Interesting, after meeting the wave of slower readers, all of my comments in this thread were massively downvoted except this one, I guess since I was initially agreeing with someone on HN who is "famous".)

Stay meritocratic, Silicon Valley. Every post is evaluated for its worth, not its sender.

[alwillis]

Making product lineups huge and confusing. Once the X becomes available, they'll have eight different models of iPhone you can buy, and that's not even counting different colors or storage options.

What iPhone you get is driven by the economics of what you can afford and your personal taste. It's not that complicated.

There are 5 models:

- iPhone SE - iPhone 6s/6s+ - iPhone 7/7+ - iPhone 8/8+ - iPhone X

It seems that Apple can't win even when they do what most people have wanted for a while: more options at more price points.

If you want to be confused, try to pick among Samsung's phones, some of which are only available on certain carriers or in certain countries and running different versions of the Android operating system.

From the SE to the iPhone X, they all run iOS 11.

[mikeash]

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight.

And it seems pretty complicated to me. I imagine a non-technical friend or relative asking me what they should get. In the past, the answer was pretty simple: decide whether you wanted big or small, and get the latest available in that size. Before the 6, I didn't even need that first step. Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lower price for a long time, but with limited storage options it was obviously positioned as being only for people who couldn't afford to pay any more.

This year I can't even decide for myself whether to get a X, an 8, or just stick with my 6+. If someone asks me whether the X is worth the price premium over the 8, or the 8 over the 7, I won't know what to say.

"It seems that Apple can't win even when they do what most people have wanted for a while: more options at more price points."

I don't understand this statement. Are you surprised that different people have different opinions?

[alwillis]

Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lower price for a long time, but with limited storage options it was obviously positioned as being only for people who couldn't afford to pay any more.

Or who didn't need or want anything more. Most of my older relatives would be with a 16 or 32GB iPhone SE for example.

This year I can't even decide for myself whether to get a X, an 8, or just stick with my 6+. If someone asks me whether the X is worth the price premium over the 8, or the 8 over the 7, I won't know what to say.

Yeah, I get the price/performance thing, but at the end of the day, it comes down to do you want the latest and greatest? Is that something you're willing to pay for?

When Apple Pay shipped, I knew I wanted an iPhone that could do that, so I got a 6s, even though I could have gotten a lower-end model. I knew I didn't want something as big as the 6s Plus, so I didn't get that, even with its dual camera setup, because the photos I can take on the 6s are good enough for me.

It's not a matter of is the price premium of the X worth it vs. the 8 in some objective way; is it worth it to you is all that really matters.

If you can't figure out what to buy, that says to me you haven't gotten clear about what you need vs. what you want and what you're willing to pay for those needs and wants.

Touch-ID works great for me, so I don't need Face-ID. However, I'd love to have an OLED screen iPhone but I'm not willing to pay $999 for it at this time.

Timing is a factor too. If you need a new iPhone right now, that means waiting until December or longer to get an iPhone X isn't really an option, especially if there's a hard deadline. Apple won't achieve supply/demand balance until Q1 or Q2 of 2018.

In some cases, these decisions make themselves.

[mikeash]

And in some cases, the bewildering array of options makes the decision difficult.

I don't even know if the X is actually better than the 8 for me, let alone whether it's worth the price premium. Things have really gone sideways with the X, because there's no longer an obvious best. The X is worse than the 8 in important ways, like no Touch ID and no home button. It's better in other ways. Which one wins? I don't know.

Back to the topic of things that wouldn't have happened under Steve, pre-Steve Apple had a vast and baffling Mac lineup. Steve eventually simplified it down to four basic offerings, one for each combination of (cheap, pro) and (desktop, portable). iPhones were even simpler. You lose out on choice, but you win on simplicity. Steve much preferred the simplicity of fewer choices. I don't mind having choices now, but it may very well end up costing Apple a sale this time: the more I waffle between the 8 and the X, the more likely I'll just decide to keep my 6+ for another year.

[alwillis]

Things have really gone sideways with the X, because there's no longer an obvious best. The X is worse than the 8 in important ways, like no Touch ID and no home button. It's better in other ways. Which one wins? I don't know.

I think you're over thinking this—the iPhone X is by far the best phone anyone has ever made. Think of it as the deluxe iPhone 8.

You're assuming Face-ID is a detriment; however, Apple wouldn't have shipped it unless it was as at least as good as Touch-ID. Perhaps you should read something from someone who's used one: https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_a....

Being a long time Apple observer, both professionally and personally, I call bullshit on this "Steve wouldn't have done this or that" crap.

Things change; Steve was known to change his mind when that was the right thing to do. What Steve did back in 1997 with the 4-product matrix is what Apple needed then, a company that had lost its way. Apple's total revenue then was a little over $7 billion; now $50 billion quarters are routine.

Apple has sold over 1 billion iPhones since 2007; it generates around 66% of its revenue. It clearly makes sense to have different models available for different consumers, not just in the US but globally, where more than half of its revenue comes from.

It wouldn't be possible to keep up this momentum if they only sold the newest and most expensive phones without being accessible to those who who need a device 1/3 or 1/2 of the price of an iPhone X.

[alwillis]

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight.

Besides the size, the only difference are the camers between the Plus and non-Plus models.

[mikeash]

In other words, besides the massive obvious difference between the two models, they also have another difference?

(And just to be complete, battery life is different too.)