Ask HN: Is it harder getting a tech job now vs. 5 years ago?

[throwawayhtgatj]

I've been self-employed for the last 5 years. I created several SaaS apps that have collectively made $1.5M pretax during that time. I also have a semi-popular open source project, prior experience moving from a senior role into a management, and have kept my skills current learning things like Sass, Bootstrap, Angular and Flask.

I don't necessarily need a job right now, but I wouldn't mind taking one because my income is 100% passive. However, I haven't been getting any e-mails back.

What I remember about applying in the past was how easy it was to get an e-mail requesting a phone interview. Probably 1 out of every 3 jobs I applied for would yield one. Over the last week, I've applied to 25 jobs and only one yielded a phone screen.

Am I out of the loop already? Is my experience that much of a commodity nowadays? What does it take to differentiate yourself in 2017?

[alain94040]

A major difference between now and 5 years ago is that you have been self-employed for 5 years. From an employer's perspective, you have tasted the forbidden fruit of independence. You no longer fit in a nice box, guaranteed to obey your manager and believe in the corporate mission statement. You can think for yourself.

There are companies that value your new skills. But more companies will find those new skills scary.

[formula_ninguna]

+500

oh, god, a few years ago, when I'd been freelancing for 2 years, I thought I'd start looking for a job in an office very soon. now I've been freelancing for 5 years already and I think I don't want to have a boss or manager supervising me and follow their rules. I better tell them what to do :)))

working as a office employee -- that job will kill your individuality.

[throwawayhtgatj]

This is a throwaway account, so I'm going to be straight up. My business has been declining for the last three years. It's still very good though and pays out more than an employer would.

But, boy, you hit the nail on the head. I don't ever want to go back to employment. I really only want a remote job as a buffer to continue working on my own.

I don't have FU money, so even though I have free time, I spend a lot of it worrying. I think that's why people are so easy to reach for VC. They feel comfortable when others have skin in the game. They don't feel so alone -- like I do.

Just wish it would last forever, but these headwinds are good for me. I need a kick in the ass. I've wasted a lot of time.

[stevenwu]

The honesty in this post is really refreshing and insightful. There are a lot of people in tech who would kill to be in your position (see every monthly-ish thread about how to make passive income or how to make money off of an app). It's interesting to think about what proportion of those such people who achieve their goal would end up feeling like how you feel - having a lot of free time, and spending a large chunk of it worrying instead of being as hyper-productive as they imagined they could be.

[throwawayhtgatj]

Thanks. Yeah, it's definitely been great, but challenging in some regards.

For the first two years I mostly spent time worrying about an older brother who unfortunately won't speak with me anymore. He was really pissed that my app took off and the side work he was doing didn't pan out.

I got over him, and spent most of my time reading books, which feels healthy at first, but then starts feeling counterproductive. Why read all this crap if you're not doing anything with what you're learning?

So, about a year or so ago, I finally got around to realizing that all the stuff I was reading could be distilled into a 2 things: Focus and hard work. The people who are successful do the work. Working hard is what originally put me in this position, and along the way, I lost myself and started thinking I got here because I'm smart. The biggest mistake I've made is wasting time, and it doesn't matter how smart you are when you do that.

Started reading books like "Flow" which gives me a lot of motivation and I've been on a solid hard-work streak for some time. Hoping I can build something else before it all comes crashing down around me.

Fun stuff...

[soneca]

Why don't you start another business, but this time with other people, as part of a team?

I am starting in this path (of creating a bootstrapping business) and being alone is both a bless (no sharing of the revenue, I make all decisions and most outcome depends solely on my work) and a curse (isolate me from other people, limit the size of the problems I can solve, is lonely).

If I reach your position in a couple of years, I will surely reach out other people to build a business together. I would do it now even, but it is hard to convince people to join me without a track record.

[throwawayhtgatj]

I'm not being snarky, but that's like asking, "Why don't you just find someone and get married?"

Even though you hear about cofounders starting businesses together and succeeding, you hear less about the problems they immediately or eventually have.

It pays to be super selective, and I haven't found anyone who thinks along the same lines I do. Part of it might be locale. I don't live in SV, and I just haven't run into that many tech entrepreneurs.

[nicolasd]

Completely agree. It's not only about the skills, but also (from my experience) working for a company isn't that satisfying and motivating as for yourself.

[purerandomness]

You might want to read "The Google Résumé" by Gayle McDowell. It changed the way I apply to jobs, and it made a difference like day and night.

I'm surprised to learn that there are people working in Tech currently finding it hard to apply. Where are you located?

Here in Europe, at least in my experience, it's getting easier every day. Tech is incredibly popular, but demand is still even higher.

You might be viewed as overqualified because of your business experience if you apply to startups.

You might just make basic mistakes that the book will teach you not to do.

[asafira]

Do you think you could give a few examples of things taught in the book that you (or a general person) may not have thought to do?

[Artlav]

I get a feeling that the tech job market is oversaturated right now, and there are plenty of people running around with all the "achievements" (diplomas, certifications, etc) and no actual knowledge.

On my last job i sat right next to the corner where we interviewed candidates, so i could hear everything and would occasionally pop in to participate. There was a scary amount of people like that - boasting a big resume but unable to tell a mutex from a semaphore.

So, i suspect you failed to pass some initial HR-level filters designed to filter out the sludge so that the actual programmers would be able to cope with the amount of candidates left to interview.

[maxsilver]

> boasting a big resume but unable to tell a mutex from a semaphore.

"We passed on hiring that guy to do our drywalling. He boasted a big resume of recent drywall hanging work, but he didn't even know the where the CEO of CertainTeed was born!"

[Fraztastic]

They can build functional, well-written products and solve complex problems, but they don't know this arbitrary task-specific trivia! Terrible!

[Artlav]

Well, it was for a project that deals with distributed low level high performance data processing. Not something a JS or even a typical application level programmer need to know about these days.

[BoysenberryPi]

>boasting a big resume but unable to tell a mutex from a semaphore

Is it bad that I have no idea what either of those are?

[dmlittle]

I'd say it depends what you're focusing on. If you're doing anything that is multi-threading, then yes. Otherwise, it's just not something you'd use but probably interesting to know ;)

[brockwhittaker]

No. The example is entirely arbitrary. A web JavaScript developer probably doesn't need to ever know the difference between those two...

[endisukaj]

A programmer must have heard of them and know at least some superficial difference. A cardiologist probably knows the different parts of a kidney and how they work.

[flukus]

Only if you claim to be experienced in building distributed, multi threaded systems.

[asafira]

In case people missed this buried in the comments: throwawayhtgatj is looking for remote work, which is notably more difficult to get than local work.

[throwawayhtgatj]

I should have named the post "is it harder getting a remote tech job now..." because that's all I'm after. I remember a few years ago, about 1 in 3 applications would result in a phone call - now it seems like its super competitive, maybe?

[toexitthedonut]

I go in and out of work. The only time I've applied for jobs is when I currently don't have one. And I do also feel like it has gotten more difficult.

First job out of college took about three months of applying.

Second job, six month.

Third job was a wash, went 8 months freelancing for bits of cash before I went to company at job no. 1 to consult for them. But the pay was terrible.

Fourth job I took after 6 months of applying. Then I got laid off late 2014.

And I couldn't get a full time job since.

I am not so naive to think I'm the only one like this. But for at least a few, the job market has gotten less forgiving. My experience is not helping balance that out.

[jbms]

Find the HR person on LinkedIn, or senior technical person. Phone the company and ask to be put through to them.

Explain to them you've applied, and you've not heard back, but you're interested.

You're a person then, not an email/CV-to-be-dealt-with, and people generally want to help people. They'll often commit there on the phone to setting up an interview with you.

[RUG3Y]

I don't have ton of experience, but I've gotten about an interview a week since I started looking for a job. I started by applying to 20 or 30 jobs a day, once I got a few interviews I slowed down.

I'm currently interviewing with a small company and I'll be doing a face-to-face with them next week.

I know it's hard to get feedback when you don't get an interview in the first place, but how does your resume look? You can have a lot of great stuff on there without giving enough specific points to generate interest. Or, you could not be applying to enough jobs.

Job searching is tough and un-fun, good luck out there!

[fiftyacorn]

Its probably harder getting the job - but the actual jobs arent harder. I blame the "programmers interview" as an unnecessary side show

[jamesmp98]

I just started applying to junior positions last week coming from freelancing. I'v applied probably the same number of jobs as the OP with no interview requests and only one reply from a recruiter that seems to be going nowhere atm (I have not heard from him since last friday)

Of course there are not too many jobs where I am. Where are you located and where are you applying?

[throwawayhtgatj]

I've been applying to remote jobs. I'm in Southern California.

[scalesolved]

Remote jobs certainly are more popular these days. I've been full time remote for the last 3 years and I've interviewed and resume screened a lot of candidates.

I'd be more than happy to check out your resume and give you some feedback if you wanted? You can DM me via Twitter (link in bio) or if you don't have it just let me know and we'll sort out an email.

[taway_1212]

I'd say that, since you've been out of employment for 5 years, you're definitely less than ideal candidate from employer's point of view (due to uncertainly regarding your motivation to get back to employment, team collaboration skills and attitude etc.). In my experience, remote jobs are offered to people who are almost a perfect match for the job. So, in your case, I'd start with an in-office job to disprove those risks, and then change jobs to a remote one.

[pmiller2]

Remote might be your issue.

[id122015]

I think so. Ten years ago I worked at a startup doing entry level support but I did not have programming skills. I dont use to apply for jobs because I'm not graduated. But I did apply for a job that required some excel skills so it was not very hard for me ad I now have medium programming skills. But the HR responded that there were candidates better qualified than me. I didnt want to apply to that job I just asked her if Im overqualified for the job and she called me and begged me to send a CV. I will never ever again apply to HR.

[nherment]

Get in touch with me, we're looking for remote folks: https://www.arkhaios.net/

[runT1ME]

I work remotely from Orange County for a big company that 'doesn't do remote'. I contributed to open source projects that were already in use by the company, and I had to start out on a '3 month contract' (working remote) before they were ok with hiring remote.

[joshmn]

You _might_ be over-qualified, and people would be turning you away because they think they can't afford you right off the bat.

I always tell people (that ask): The hardest part is getting the first interview. Stand out (seriously, just be yourself) but don't be loud in doing so.

[grandbestmaster]

I was a network engineer for 2.5 years, started out right from college. Recently went to two interviews, devops and full stack engineer and got offers from both. This was in Stockholm.

[venture_lol]

Dude, create several new SaaS apps and go another 5 years. You've got the skills. Just have to dust off the cobwebs on the drive and the skills :)

[humbleMouse]

Apply through a recruiter, you'll get some interviews.

[throwawayhtgatj]

That's a good idea, although I'd rather work with companies direct. Recruiters can be shady.

[8draco8]

Recruiters can get you back to work in no time. This is their job. Here in UK I love to work with recruiters (found last 3 jobs trough them). The only thing that I have to do is to send 10 emails to top 10 recruitment agencies in a region and next week I will have at least couple interviews. A lot of companies have their favourite recruitment agencies and they trust them. It's kind of like having "your guy" inside the company. Recruiter will always do initial interview with you and then he will nag the company to schedule interview. You are not risking being annoying to your potential employer, recruiter is doing it for you.

[humbleMouse]

True, but the only way you're going to "work with companies direct" is by having someone on the inside that can get your resume the light of day.

Nobody is going to call back somebody with no "work" experience for the past 5 years even if you claim to know the new javascript frameworks.

[sleepingeights]

It's either ALOT harder or very different now-a-days. Anything that you could run on a consistent basis as a bread-winning norm is already or quickly in the process of *aaS or being integrated into one or other.

One way to sell a remote-style work is to make it part of a perk you want in the position or job. There is a ton of talent and skill already willing to move right into the company's parking lot and LIVE ( literally ) there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0_KiM9Mv8

You're not competitive with them at all if it comes to just comparing apples and oranges. The way the market is, offering remote-work can be sold as a perk by the company, or something you need to negotiate for. But expect to either fly to the office or meet them atleast once a week, maybe less or more depending... most likely more than once a week.