Ask HN: Autism, depression and shyness

[devzill]

Hey all.

I've been thinking recently about my personality and how it's affecting my professional opportunities. I was hoping perhaps someone here might have some advise?

So I'm on the austism spectrum. It's not severe, but bad enough that I often don't know what's funny and what isn't. I cant make small talk. And I find it generally hard to form relationships even when I try.

I also suffer from depression. I think about killing myself a lot. People hate depressed people. And I get it. I try to pretend I'm happy, but some days I can't and that pushes people away.

Being a solitary kid also caused me to develop an extreme shyness. It's better these days but I still have noticeable anxiety in social situations, and I tend to avoid them whenever I can. That makes it even harder for me to form relationships.

I was recently let go from my job and I'm certain part of that was due to me never really fitting in. And again, I understand why people wouldn't want someone like me around. I'm a terrible team player, I'm weird and unsociable, and when I do have to communicate I'm crippled by shyness.

I've spent my whole life trying and failing to start my own thing so I can get away from people. But it's never worked out, probably in part because I stuck at making the kinds of contacts I should be.

But I need to get a job soon because I'm going to be homeless in a few of weeks. I know if I apply to enough places someone will over look my awkwardness during the interview and give me job. But I'll never get promoted because I'm the weird guy in the corner. And one day the markets will change and I'l naturally be first in line to be let go.

I'm getting fed up with it honestly. I've always been bright, but that's doesn't mean much.

Is anyone in a similar position? What's the answer?

Oh, and if by any chance someone reading this happens to be looking for a depressed autistic developer, send me a message or something - I'm fully qualified for the position.

[rdtek]

Try to develop your spiritual and emotional intelligence. A lot of people in the tech and science industry seem to be so focussed on the hard skills that they neglect soft skills and other important parts of life. Success in software development is only 20% coding and 80% communication (a wise person told me). Your anxiety can be overcome, look for opportunities to build positive relationships with people, volunteer, help someone, read some non-tech literature e.g. novels, creative writing, poetry, scriptures. Personally my Christian faith has helped me understand people and become more emotionally sharp. If you have any Christian friends or family get in touch with them. Believe you can grow and overcome, the lowest moments can be the most significant turning points from which you can move forward. You can do it man.

[RandomOpinion]

Though well intentioned, that's not really the right advice for someone on the autism disorder spectrum. It's kind of like telling a person with muscular dystrophy to try jogging.

[rdtek]

Some people with autism do make significant progress to the point where they can achieve a lot and live a fulfilling life. The muscular dystrophy simile is inaccurate and quite disempowering, like saying "sorry your stuck in a condition so don't try to do anything". Getting a formal diagnosis and professional medical advice is of course a good idea as per the other comment. There are stories and research showing the brain can develop and learn in autistic children and they become more able to deal with the social challenges of life [1]. The OP has already said s/he has made progress with shyness, this is an encouragement to take steps forward in other areas too.

[1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2271608/Can-really...

[ThrowawayP]

I'm a similar person.

>So I'm on the austism spectrum... I also suffer from depression... I still have noticeable anxiety in social situations, and I tend to avoid them whenever I can...

Is this self-diagnosed or do you have a formal diagnosis from a clinician? I would recommend getting a formal diagnosis if you don't have one, as it offers you certain legal protections and opens some options for help. All of the things that you describe are well known syndromes and are, to varying degrees, treatable. I recommend seeking a psychiatrist / therapist at a teaching hospital, if you can, as you have a better chance of getting higher quality care.

>I've spent my whole life trying and failing to start my own thing so I can get away from people...

Aside from a few extraordinary talented individuals, the day of the solitary hacker is over; software engineering is a team sport.

What worked for me is to:

1) Accept that you're not going to fit socially in the way that normal people do. Aloofness, as long as it's not taken to extremes, is actually OK.

2) Find professional aspects that you are willing to work extra hard in in that others will value, e.g. hard working, willing to take on dirty jobs, or developing a technical specialty. People are willing to forgive your social limitations if you are of value and not otherwise unpleasant to be around.

3) (The following is going to sound extremely weird to people not suffering from autism.) Develop an synthetic set of social behaviors that cater to your limitations. For example, I memorize certain canned responses to use during short social interactions and use other other techniques to cut the interaction short if needed to in order to prevent awkwardness from arising.

[devzill]

Thanks for the reply.

I was tested for Austin when I was younger and I was told I was on the spectrum. I was offered extra help in school and all that, but I always refused it because I figured I'd never get that same help in real life, and it was probably better just to work twice as hard. For the same reason I don't care for any legal protections. I wouldn't take them even if I was offered. But I haven't been formally diagnosed with anxiety or depression. It's extremely clear to anyone who's spent time with me that I suffer from both. I just don't see the benefit of being diagnosed as I don't want any special help, or to take drugs to treat something that I don't see any a character flaw.

1. Yeah, I take pride in being a bit different. That being said, I'm very aware that going too far isn't a good thing if I still want to relate to others.

2. I guess this is really the answer I'm looking for. I don't want to be "normal", I want to be myself yet not be rejected by people professionally. I guess in reality the only way to do that is offer something special.

3. Oh man, I have so many canned responses for everything. My issue is that sometimes when I'm having a rough day I don't care enough to pretend I care about what I'm saying. I find a forced response like, "Oh wow, that sounds cool! Tell me more!" quickly becomes, "oh. Cool."

[ramtatatam]

For the depression part - you might want to look for a therapy. It's not a shame and it might improve quality of your life. Therapist will help you find out the core reason standing behind your depression and will help you to make it let go.

Apart from that - if you are technically gifted and you `are always right` with your ideas just try to get somebody who will do `small talk` part for you and get them on board as co-founder. The best solution is to find somebody like that in your nearest circles (friend you already know long enough) - so you will suffer each other for long enough for the idea to kick in :-)

[Diti]

I am in a similar position (except for the depression part—I’ve been there, but I’m now over it—and I also don’t have immediate concerns over becoming homeless). What country do you live in? In my country (France), the solution to this situation is to ask for welfare/social support. With an official diagnosis, you can then get financial help and a “disabled worker” status, which really helps professionally.

[throwawayR]

I don’t have Autism, but I’ve struggled with PTSD/depression for most of my life and have pretty debilitating shyness (so much so that people have asked if I’m autistic).

It looks like ThrowawayP has really good suggestions, but I thought I’d throw in a couple resources you may find helpful.

1) I know a huge barrier to getting counseling is the cost. Before you find a stable job you could try online counseling. I found a couple sites that seem pretty affordable (Both options start out free and have comparatively low monthly fees after the initial consultation). I think both have chat options, which is great for people like me who are really shy :) You mentioned that you may be homeless soon. Definitely talk with a counselor about that; they may be able to point you to helpful resources. - https://www.betterhelp.com/ - http://www.7cups.com/online-therapy/?ob=1 (This site has licensed therapists and “listeners”. This link should take you to the licensed therapist option, which should be more useful.)

2) A few tech companies are starting Autism hiring programs. Here’s a general article about it: http://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/autism-hiring-i... - Here’s microsoft’s program: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/inside-microsoft/c...

3) I’ve been trying to find ways that I can work on my interviewing skills and am considering using https://interviewing.io/. It allows you to do anonymous technical interviews for practice where you can get feedback on your communication skills. (If your interview goes well, it can even lead to real job opportunities)

You mentioned that people hate people with depression, and I just wanted to add that this isn’t necessarily true. There are people who don’t understand it because they haven’t experienced it, but there are a lot of people who will relate to what you’re going through. When you have depression, it feels like everyone dislikes you. I’m not trying to put a bandaid on the issue, and I know there are people who can be cruel and unempathetic. I just want you to know that there are a lot of people out there who do care and will relate (and they’re the ones worth knowing).

[devzill]

1. I've had some experience with counselling and psychotherapy. Truth is I really don't see my depression as a bad thing. I see it as something that in my case is entirely logically routed and I don't understand why other people are so happy all the time. I don't see myself as someone who needs help or curing, but the only sane person in the room. I guess I just want to know how to live my life as a person who's different mentally in certain ways rather than feel like I need to thinking positively like the people around me just to survive.

2. Ah, that's cool. I'll look into it although I'm not sure I would personally classify as disabled, or even want to. I certainly don't see myself as disabled in anyway.

3. That's a really cool service. I wish I could sign up, apparently it's in private beta and I can't see an email form anywhere. =(

And yeah, some people relate of course. But in my experience it's probably around 1 in 25 who relate, with probably around 5 out of every 25 who strongly dislike people who are depressed. And I'm not hating on these people, I almost hate people who are unrealistically optimistic all the time, but society often tells us that kind of disorder is good. Which is crazy to me.