[Chinmayh]

I am not surprised that a treatment that is so effective to the author has remained unknown to him for so long. I have had feelings of suicide for the last 14 years. I personally hate meeting psychologists, because they can be so unpredictable. Some of the better ones prescribed me medicine, some of the worse ones, told me I had to stop crying and find solutions to my problems, that I was lazy. I was also told because I could do my job and earn a good living, I had nothing wrong. Few acknowledge that having no friends for 14 years can be disruptive. I am in a state where every moment is sad, but over the years at least I have learnt to keep a happy face on the outside and wait for something to happen. I just wished psychologists be more scientific and stop considering everything trial and error!

[cpncrunch]

Here are some suggestions that worked for me, and may (or may not) help.

I find that depression -- at least for me -- has two main causes:

[1] Excessive emotional response to bad situations (similar to what the author of this article is experiencing).

and:

[2] Insufficient motivation/goals/joy.

My solution to [1] is twofold: mindfulness and resolution. Be aware that excessive negative emotional responses are bad (as they lead to depression), so it is better to just observe bad situations and try not to get overly emotional. Secondly, try to resolve the issue (either by actively managing it, or by accepting that the world is just like that and you can't change it), so that the conflict doesn't arise in future.

For [2], the solution is to have a purpose in life, with motivating, goal-oriented activities that you enjoy. I suspect this might be the issue for you. There is more to life than having a well-paid job. I gave up very well paid contract work 15 years ago, as I hated it. Since then I have worked on my own business. I earn a hell of a lot less money now, but I'm much happier.

Having friends (or at least social contact) is also important to mental health, even if that is just saying hello to people you meet on the street, or chatting to like-minded people online.

Please don't wait for something to happen. Take charge of your life and do something about it. Being depressed all the time is an unnatural state, and is your brain's way of telling you that you need to change something in your life. Sometimes you need to make major changes in your life to make things better.

Feel free to email me at [e-mail] if you want to chat.

[throwaway3301]

Re: [2]

But what are you to do when you have no purpose in life? No motivating, goal-oriented activities that you enjoy? For many depressed people, including myself, everything seems pointless and therefore nothing has purpose and nothing is motivating or truly interesting.

No one really offers any good advice on this part of the solution and yet it's the most important part! Everyone seems to think that everyone must have something that interests them enough to chase a goal for the rest of their lives but I think the reality is that very few people have this. And furthermore motivation ebbs and flows, I have found that it's not very reliable and so a solution that involves it seems oversimplified to me.

[DanBC]

There's a concept of "social prescribing" being developed. So, if you need to go to a gym a doctor will give you a prescription which gives you cheaper access to a gym.

There are a bunch of organisations to provide "vocational services" for people with mental health problems. Vocational services doesn't just mean work based activity, it involves social and sports and etc stuff too. This used to be "day services" and was provided in sub-optimal ways. Usually it'd be in a room in a hospital or other mental health building, and there would be strict segregation so no members of the general community would use the room and people with a MH problem wouldn't use rooms in the wider community. There was little concept of progression or push.

The Sainsbury Centre for Mental Health did a great report and so now day services are better - although still no where near good enough.

My local area has "People and Places". They have a large allotment in a normal allotments place. They grow fruit and veg and flowers with other gardening work.

There's also the Independence Trust which run a variety of different groups and sign post to other groups.

Both these groups work with people at most stages of illness (not while they're detained under section in hospital, but pretty much everything else) and they can tailor the work to what the people feel able to do.

http://www.independencetrust.co.uk/

http://www.peopleandplacesglos.co.uk/

[javert]

I just want to say that there are two perspectives expressed in response to this comment. One is the idea that pleasure in life comes from starting out abstract (e.g. with abstract goals) and finding more specific things to enact those goals. The other is the idea that pleasure in life comes from starting out concrete (e.g. pooping, eating, quenching thirst, etc).

The first idea is wrong, the second idea is right.

But from those concrete things you build up more and more abstract. The more abstract things gain meaning (bring pleasure) from the less abstract things.

As a primitive man, you feel cold and want to be warm, so you build a fire. Then you build a house. Then you kill an animal and make a warm coat. Then you build a better bow. Then you learn how to hunt better. Then you start planning years ahead. You move to better hunting grounds, you start saving up firewood, etc. That is the primitive man's version of a career; the same applies to a modern career.

However, you can't reduce the value of the more abstract things to the less abstract things. Saving up firewood is not reducible to the sum of warm nights you get as a result. It has its own, separate meaning. But that meaning is only possible because of the less abstract things.

Relatedly, people are wrong to say that life is pointless. The point is the pleasure and pain you feel. Meaning is derived from pleasure and pain. Nature gave us a source of meaning---that had to be the case for advanced life to evolve, and it's pleasure and pain.

tl;dr 1) values are built from the ground up, not the top down 2) values are based on pleasure and that is the "point"

[rayalez]

Well, everything is pointless by itself. Universe has no mind so it doesn't go anywhere and doesn't give a shit about anytning.

But you do have mind, and so you can choose your purpose, to decide on what you value and then go after it.

Values are arbitrary. Well, the most basic ones are built into you(survival and reproduction, valuing food/safety/sex), but the kind of values humans speak of when they think about a "purpose" are mostly made up by them(making money, raising kids, pleasing god, being a good programmer, whatever).

So if you're looking for "purpose" it's not about finding it somewhere in the world, but more about deciding what you want out of life. I suggest you start by deciding and being clear on what kind of things you value. Once you know what you want out of life on the high/abstract level - you look for the more concrete examples and activities that move you towards achieving these values.

Here's my example. What I want the most in life, in a very abstract sense, is "being clever", so I am very motivated to do everything that moves me in that general direction. More specifically, I want to be great at thinking and creating things, coming up with ideas and understanding the world. This is something I want for the sake of itself, this is what makes life fun, I value these things "just because". After thinking for a while, I figured that the best practical activities that move me in the direction of these values are Computer Science, building a startup, and writing comedy/fiction.

So at this point my abstract desire to "be clever" drives my motivation to "learn programming" or "get good at writing comedy". And from there I can come up with goals and practical projects, which I am motivated to do because they move me further towards fulfilling my values in life.

I went through a period of depression and apathy, and thought a lot about how to figure out what I want. I'm still scared/depressed(for various reasons, mostly related to logistics in life), but now I have figured out how to "find my passion" and come up with goals that make me motivated and driven. So if what I wrote makes any sense or is in any way helpful, I'm happy to talk more on the topic, if you're interested, maybe you could bounce ideas off of me, maybe that will help you out. If you want - feel free to message me to [e-mail]

[twobits]

IMHO, having, and still confronting the darkness:

a) Yes, everything is indeed pointless / "pointless".

b) Think about what "pointless" means. It requires an agent to assign and remove importance. Who is this agent? Is it you, is it society, is it what you have been told since born? What's his goals / values / pov? Why exactly is something "important" or not?

c) Fck "saving the world". Fck "there is a point in this". See it, start, simpler: Do you enjoy eating some specific food? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy taking a dump? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy chewing gum? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy saying some arcane joke? To yourself or some random person you just met? Even if they dislike it or don't understand it? That's the meaning of life. Do you enjoy scratching your @@? That's the meaning of life.

The "purpose in life", is to eg scratch your @@, and for 2 seconds, say "I liked that, and I currently feel good".

It may sound ridiculous, but everything comes from that. If you eg say, "I was thirsty, it's hot, and I enjoyed this cold glass of water", you are on your way to be happy, and also on your way to save humanity. If you want to do that. ..Don't believe me that everything comes from that. But, pls, do enjoy the one second of today, that you felt well doing whatever.

That's the meaning of life. That's the purpose. And when you internalise that, you will find something that is nice for two seconds, and, eventually, you will find the "purpose".

[cpncrunch]

Yes, I agree that you should try and find meaning in everything you do. Basically you want everything that you do in your life to be in line with your motivation and goals. It's partly a process of changing your outlook on life, and partly about making actual changes to how you live your life.

However, you should also be aware that one of the symptoms of depression is being unable to find enjoyment in activities that you normally find enjoyable. This might be the problem that throwaway3301 is experiencing.

It's not always easy to figure out what is causing depression. It's as if your brain has set off a "master caution" warning light, and you then have to figure out yourself what the problem actually is. I would recommend just asking yourself "is this what I want to do with my life" (in terms of your job, where you live, your relationships, etc.)

Also, depression can feed on itself in a vicious circle. I think this is where CBT comes in, as it teaches you to avoid negative thought patterns (although I never used it myself).

[davidjnelson]

This is awesome, and reminds me of what Eckhart Tolle is describing in his book "A New Earth". Essentially, "your purpose in life is whatever you are doing right now".

[Chinmayh]

Thanks cpncrunch! It feels good to have my problems acknowledged. I will remember your advice. Regarding mindfullness, I am trying to be busy all the time and take no breaks. Either do some activity that doesn't let me analyze an event or crash on the bed. The moment I feel I am getting involved in some topic, I just try to move on.

[judk]

Remember that busy doesn't have to mean hectic -- taking a walk or seeing a movie with people is a way to stay busy.

[cpncrunch]

Yes, agreed. Excessive stress can also cause depression. I find hiking, cycling, napping, swimming in the sea, sitting at the beach, etc. are all good for optimum mental health.

[a3n]

> I am in a state where every moment is sad

Please, keep trying.

As for trial and error, we're far from knowing everything. Among a list of things known to have worked for various people, it is still somewhat trial and error finding out which of those things will work for any individual.

We're big bags of meat, bone and mystery, and solving that mystery is a challenge, for ourselves and for our practitioners.