[seanblanchfield]

We think (@pagefair) it's clear that adblock is being promoted just fine by word of mouth. It's the ad industry that's got to change somehow. We're trying to be part of that. What's shocking to us is how the ad industry mostly doesn't even recognise how fast adblock is growing. To them, it just looks like more people have switched off their PCs, because they just can't see that segment of the audience anymore. Therefore, they're having a really hard time figuring out that this is even happening to them.

[coldpie]

I'm interested to see how the web business model changes in the next decade. I think it's likely that web advertising is a dead end. There's been a number of articles about how Facebook advertising is a waste of money, ad impressions are down in general, and like this article describes, Adblock is really taking off. I think, and desperately hope, that we're going to see more voluntary subscription type services like Patreon, where the content itself is released for free.

I personally loathe advertising. When watching YouTube videos on my phone, where I can't use Adblock, I actively mute and set the phone aside during ads that can't be skipped, or that I choose to let play to support the content creator. Then I come back 30 seconds later to view the content I wanted.

I recently switched to using Firefox on mobile because it's the only mobile browser I'm aware of with an Adblock plugin. I put up with mobile advertising for several years--I understand that's how web content creators get paid in 2014, even if I think it's a crummy business model. But advertisers crossed the line when my phone started talking about construction contractors at me out loud. Instantly switched to Firefox, installed Adblock, and didn't look back. Advertisers have no one to blame but themselves for the rise of Adblock.

Sorry, advertisers, but your ilk are simply too scummy to put up with. You abuse otherwise valuable technology, you waste my time and bandwidth, you manipulate feelings and entire cultures, and you convince people to buy crap that is useless and often actively harmful. I'm done with advertisers and I hope Adblock hastens their demise. Content creators will figure out a different business model without your horseshit.

This post became progressively more angry the more I thought about advertisers :)

[m0nty]

> I personally loathe advertising.

I've always had issues with the constant brain-washing with trivial rubbish, stupid humour and idiotic themes so often used in TV commericals. I tend to download movies/television now, or buy them on DVD, and so I hardly ever watch television per se. When I do, I find it jarring to be taken out of a story to be told about lavatory cleaner or some novelty foodstuff. I have the same feeling when browsing without AdBlock. How am I supposed to read the article with so much stuff dancing around my peripheral vision? Oh, I'm not, it's the ads which are the important thing.

In terms of practical effects, I find I am far less materialistic than many people I know, and less likely to buy things for the sake of it. I think this is because constantly being told you want a new car or consumer electronics will inevitably cause you to believe it. I don't mean this to be rude, btw - it's just how advertising works. Constant repetition combined with all the tricks of the trade like social proof, limited offers, etc.

[seanblanchfield]

I used to block ads before we noticed that 30% of our website revenue was lost to adblocking. We realised that people weren't intentionally blocking ads on our site, but probably due to some bad advertising that pushed them over the edge somewhere else on the internet. There was nothing we could do, so started a new business (PageFair).

In your post, you are correctly angry at advertisers. But adblocking doesn't punish advertisers, it punishes websites, starting with your favorite ones. Right now, the advertisers just go somewhere else for their traffic. Even if it did somehow punish advertisers, would it discriminate between the relevant & polite ones (e.g., job ads on stackoverflow) and the spammy ones (magic weight loss pills on dictionary.com)?

Agree that the publishers and web users need something better. That's our goal at PageFair.

[coldpie]

Good luck to you, but it never works. As you say, there's no way to discriminate between relevant & polite ads and spammy ads except for human intervention. I'm not involved in the business (clearly), but I think the overheads are sufficiently small in the advertising business that that's just not viable.

That's why I don't think advertising is a viable business model for web content in the long term. Spammers are going to spam, users are going to install adblocking software to get rid of the spam, and whatever's left will either get caught up in adblock or be too cost ineffective for businesses to bother with.

[coldpie]

Replying to myself to ask Sean a direct question. Your ads appear to be really crap quality. "Free Mp4 Player" with a link to Ask.com is really your idea of better advertising?

See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8021255

[Ricapar]

> I used to block ads before we noticed that 30% of our website revenue was lost to adblocking.

I'm curious how you came at that number.

I'm inclined to believe that at least some of the population that does click on and interact with advertising is part of a very different group than that would install AdBlock.

I find myself in the latter - I run AdBlock, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't be clicking on ads anyways. Am I part of that 30% lost revenue?

[CmonDev]

I think I have never-ever bought something via a banner. I will always read several comparison reviews first. SO ads don't get blocked in my browser for some reason, but the quality of their job ads is very low (e.g. no salary info in 99% cases) and it only works well for open-source-high-rep type of developers anyway. So basically just a timewaster for both me and an ad-provider. Hence block all-around :).

[hga]

"But advertisers crossed the line when my phone started talking about construction contractors at me out loud. Instantly switched to Firefox, installed Adblock...."

Bingo. Every time I switch to, or add a browser to the ones I regularly use (this also included a desktop Windows to Linux switch), I forgo Adblock. But I inevitably install it after hitting a seriously abusive ad.

In theory I'm willing to give advertisers a chance, in practice the bad actors have poisoned the well so thoroughly I, and evidently many many others, including ones I influence, or setup and maintain their computers (my parents, who have a fair amount of disposable income), block almost all advertising.

And, yeah, I can't see how this won't end up changing a number of business models.

[slipstream-]

I installed adblock when i finally got fed up of 30 second-1 minute unskippable ads on 1-3 minute youtube videos.

Of course, the killing of malvertising/download-software-with-adware etc ads is another good thing.

In my opinion, if there was an easy link to report an ad directly on the search results, I'd pause adblock to search for various terms and report the fake support/adware laden download links/etc ads.

But as it is, I think tipping is the future. But maybe that's just my connections to the Dogecoin community coming through.

[ciaranm]

> To them, it just looks like more people have switched off their PCs

That's a really interesting comment. I don't think people are moving away from laptops (desktops maybe) anywhere near as quickly as I so often hear.

Anecdotally, almost everyone I know uses predominantly laptops for their computing/browsing needs. They almost all also use Adblock.

[seren]

I think you are on to something. If you are "savy" internet user, you probably hang a bit longer on the desktop than the average population because you are also a power user. If you are a "casual" internet user, mainly checking some social site status, etc, using a mobile is enough. Or to say otherwise, prosumer vs consumer. And it is more likely that you will use an adblocker if you belong to the first part of the population.

[ciaranm]

I'm one of a handful of people I know who still use a desktop on a (mostly) daily basis outside of work. They're all either devs or heavy PC gamers.

Having said that, I don't know a single person who doesn't at least use a laptop every other day or so. Most of my friends have smartphones, but I don't know anyone who relies on that as their only access point for online services.

[scholia]

Are you including Adblock Edge? How is that doing?

[valarauca1]

Pagefair is basically "Clean ads as a service." If they detect your using Adblock plus, they'll server you an ad, adblock plus won't block, because they pay adblock plus. (And because they claim to follow adblock plus's policy of 'good ads').

Which is annoying, because if you aren't using adblock plus, you don't get decent ads (just the standard ads), so ultimately it defeats the goal of adblock which is to make all ads non-obtrusive, for all users, not just the chosen few who use adblock.

Adblock edge will block pagefair ads, because adblock edge is a not-for-profit adblocker, unlike adblock plus.

Also hosts blocking remains a completely viable option.

[coldpie]

> adblock plus won't block

I was wondering if this is true. It is! Take a look:

Here's ABP's policy on "acceptable ads":

https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads

From there, you can find the "acceptable ads" whitelist:

https://easylist-downloads.adblockplus.org/exceptionrules.tx...

And indeed, PageFair has a few domains listed. Fascinatingly, there's also a link to a forum thread where the whitelist was requested:

https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20718

That thread links to a page that uses PageFair. After enabling a bunch of JavaScript domains (what, you're still not running NoScript?), an ad does indeed show up:

http://forums.utopia-game.com/forumdisplay.php?1583-Suggesti...

Rather hilariously, the ad is for a "Free Mp4 Player" and links to Ask.com or something. If this is PageFair's idea of the future of quality advertising, I don't think their company is long for this world.

[valarauca1]

There was an ealier story in new about pagefair cleaning 600k in funding. I idled slightly and read their FAQ's while waiting for a tests bench to get set up.

It's interesting, I imagine they'll be sucessful, and it will ultimately drive up hosts blocking again (I do this, hate no script, I like my website's shiny chrome).

[seanblanchfield]

Adblock Edge is included, as is every plugin or proxy that acts to remove advertising from web pages. Unfortunately, we can't specifically distinguish adblock edge from the others right now.

[scholia]

OK, thanks for the info!