[epsylon]

To be honest, Monopoly is really a terrible game. It's mostly a game of luck (getting the good dice rolls).

Catan is nice, but it does suffer from the same problem, the dice rolls influence way too much of the game.

My personal favorites for long games are: The Game of Thrones board game, which is really awesome with the right set of players because it favors a lot diplomacy and strategy (the biggest problem with it is the randomness of the cards, but you can patch the rules to correct that); Eclipse, a 4X strategy game, quite balanced and with interesting rules (the bigger your empire is, the more costly your actions are); Civilization the board game, which is also extremely well balanced (all games I've played have seen cultural, financial, military and technological victories being competitive); and finally, for some good fun with friends, Battlestar Galactica (w/ expansions), which is a classical cooperative board game with traitors (except for a few twists). The tense atmosphere of the TV show is well re-transcribed in the game.

For short to averagely long games, my favorites are Agrikola, Race for The Galaxy with the first two expansions (I've probably played hundreds of games of this one at this point), Olympos, Caylus, Power Grid (with slight patches to the rules), Smallworld...

If you like games with no chance at all, try Intrigue. It is a game of pure negociation and backstabbing, and you may end up angry with your friends after playing it :-) (which is why it gets very polarized reviews on BGG and equivalents; much like the GoT board game, it is a game where you have to make alliances and betray them in order to win).

[michaelochurch]

Catan really invented the "German" aesthetic. Yes, it has dice, and yes, there's luck; but it deserves a lot of credit because it was the first.

[epsylon]

I certainly wouldn't deny it. I'd much rather play Catan than most games, anyway.

[michaelochurch]

I created a card game (Ambition) to unify the German aesthetic and the trick-taking genre, which turned out to be hard to do. The problem is that it still has too much luck (dealt hands) to appeal to the German-style crowd, but it's too complex for the people who enjoy card games for simplicity [0] (e.g. Hearts, Poker). So it's kinda "between worlds". I feel like Catan might suffer that if it came out today, even though it's a great game in its own right.

I like German games a lot but I'm not a fan of the "if it has dice or cards, it's not worth playing" mentality that I sometimes see. Games have a variety of social purposes. Sometimes I want to play something like Cards Against Humanity and sometimes I want to play Tigris and Euphrates. Ain't nothing wrong with that. (I do get annoyed with the people who only want to play Texas Hold 'em, though.)

[0]: I don't mean to imply that these games are without depth. It's just that the rules are simple, and the complexity comes more from the players.

[205guy]

That no-randomness mentality is a bit odd, but I admit that some games don't integrate it well. In Catan, I think the random element is well-done because it is the board and its distribution of resources that is random, not so much each player's turn.

I'm not sure what a "German aesthetic" would be in a card game, but one Austrian trick-taking card game that is a lot of fun is Schnapsen. The cards are random, the trump is random, and you draw cards each turn adding temporal randomness, but outwitting the randomness (and your opponent) is part of the appeal. It's slightly complex (a bit more than Hearts), but still way simpler than Bridge. Each round is fairly fast (5-10 minutes), and you can play a match (to 7 points) under an hour.

Apparently, it's called Sixty-Six (Sechsundsechzig) in Germany, though Schnapsen is a variant.

http://www.pagat.com/marriage/schnaps.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixty-six_%28card_game%29

[epsylon]

> The problem is that it still has too much luck (dealt hands) to appeal to the German-style crowd

Well it depends, when there are dealt hands, we usually do some kind of drafting with my group (even when it's specifically written in the rules) because it helps dealing with the randomness factor a lot, while still providing the added re-playability that cards add in a game (and other random factors, like dices - for example in Myrmes, where they determine events that are common to all the players).

Agrikola for example features a LOT of cards which add an incredible depth to the game, and drafting allows you to carefully prepare your combos and make sure that you don't get too many or too few good cards. There's randomness in the way the Agrikola board is setup as well, so overall there's a lot of replay value with that game. For me it's one of the greatest example of modern German-style games.

(I mentioned Race for the Galaxy earlier, and it's a card game only, but there's a ton of strategy within it, and drafting + using the provided starting worlds helps mitigating the randomness out of it. (A few patch to the rules can be used as well for experienced players). Sometimes you'll be a bit lucky or unlucky, but the upside is that with experienced players, games are short and luck averages out quickly.)

> I like German games a lot but I'm not a fan of the "if it has dice or cards, it's not worth playing" mentality that I sometimes see. Games have a variety of social purposes. Sometimes I want to play something like Cards Against Humanity and sometimes I want to play Tigris and Euphrates. Ain't nothing wrong with that. (I do get annoyed with the people who only want to play Texas Hold 'em, though.)

I completely agree.