[skrause]

> Because if all of us move to T-Mobile, the other carriers will have no choice to join them in being customer friendly.

No, if all people move to T-Mobile, they will just start behaving like the other carriers. The only reasons they're customer friendly is because they have a low market share and try to win customers, not because it's their company culture. Just look at their German parent company, Deutsche Telekom is the German AT&T.

[joelrunyon]

The purpose isn't to pledge loyalty to one company forever - it's to vote with your dollars to encourage the type of behavior you'd like to see.

If enough people switch - the others will have to make some changes in order to stay competitive. He's not suggesting that we all pledge loyalty to t-mobile until the end of time.

[Ntrails]

I used a tethered unlimited data iphone 4 as my only internet for 18 months after I got my first job (and thus treated myself to a smartphone). Three (UK Carrier) never complained - even when I was downloading seasons of shows or 20gb games from steam. My usage was hundreds of GB.

As far as I am concerned that is worthy of loyalty, and I intend to remain with them unless they change their behaviour - even if not the absolute cheapest.

Bizarre that them doing what they said they would should surprise me and engender loyalty ofc, but it did. Just my 2 cents.

[stevenleeg]

But at least there are no 2 year contracts to keep us locked into T-Mobile if they ever turn into dirtbags!

[noloqy]

Though T-Mobile seems to have adopted an interesting strategy in the US - as a European customer I find their proposition not to be notably better than that of other carriers. Here, it takes European commissioners to lower international roaming charges. T-Mobile doesn't rock across the globe.

[timthorn]

As an EU customer, try roaming to the USA and seeing if the Commissioner has done anything about those charges...

[kuschku]

The commisioners only lowered the charges for users in the EU roaming in other EU-countries. For example, if you bought your contract in Germany, you'll have to pay only 0.10 € / minute while you're in Denmark.

(Which is quite funny, 'cause I have to pay 0.11€ / minute for calling to other german carriers.)

[Shivetya]

I am so tired of two year contracts, but I have a list of 'approved' carriers I can choose from and have my phone partially paid for. Until recently T-Mobile was not on the list. Now all I need to do if wait out my current two year with the other guys.

There is certainly nothing smart about paying seventy, eighty, or more, per month for a smart phone. If anyone is smart its the guys charging for it and getting it.

[greenmountin]

Two year contracts are a lie, a prop, an illusion. If you break it, you basically pay back the prorated part of the phone discount you got. If you go to a carrier without phone subsidies, they'll charge you less month-to-month an amount equal to the monthly prorated phone discount.

This was my realization when pricing out basic phone service with T-Mobile, ATT, etc. You have to really work hard to pay different. Just don't be afraid to break the contract, it's not a real penalty.

[alexpopescu]

I think this is quite incorrect. I've recently got the new iPhone and looked at the possible options across AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile (I haven't included Sprint for a reason I cannot recall right now).

If you calculate the costs over a 2 year span, the differences are quite significant: http://jots.mypopescu.com/post/61007400356/iphone-5s-choosin...

_nb_: I haven't included any interest/depreciation rates though.

[bsimpson]

I made a spreadsheet for my girlfriend when she bought the iPhone 5s. She was debating between AT&T, StraightTalk, and AIO wireless. On AIO, you're still better off on AT&T over the course of a 2 year contract by $90. If you choose StraightTalk, you'll save $174 over 2 years. (That savings goes up to $299 if you buy an AT&T phone and then immediately cancel and pay the ETF; both prices combined are less than the $749 sticker price.)

The trick is that most people don't replace their phones on a schedule. Some phones don't hold enough of a charge after 18 months and get replaced early; some people are still happy with their 4 year old phone. If you are on a pay-as-you-go plan and hold onto a phone for longer than 2 years, the savings start to really add up.

The other trick is that many people can get pay-as-you-go prices on contract, through their corporation, credit union, or university. When I was on AT&T in 2009, I used my university's alumni association to bring my cost down to $55 per month.

[judk]

What phones from the 2009 still have a serviceable battery and USB/charge port? And what are the 2013 versions of these phones?

[officemonkey]

A friend of mine is still using an original iPhone.

[goggles99]

You clearly have never used an MVNO(Reseller)

I just went to Verizon and chose a free SmartPhone (Droid 4) with a 500MB data plan. It was $80/mo 2 yr contract

I can buy that phone outright (brand new) for $300.

If I go to PagePlus (Verizon MVNO) and sign up for their $1200 Minute, $3000 Text/MMS 500MB $30/mo plan here is what I paid after two years.

Verizon - $80 * 24 = $1,920

PagePlus - $30 * 24 + $300 (phone) + $50 roaming (average usage cost for 2 yrs) = $1,020

And what did I get for my $900 difference? (That is $37.50/mo BTW) A big "Verizon" label on my phone, and a two year contract.

You could get two plans and phones from PagePlus and still pay less.

I realize that there are other factors like level of customer service, and no roaming charges that VZW and ATT die-hards will tell you about. Well, in my experience, the service is no better and most people almost never use roaming service while using a Verizon MVNO. I would say that i have only spent around $20 in the last two years from roaming.

Other factiods: Have Verizon or ATT and want to change your plan options (Minutes, Data amount ETC)? Sure - that will require a new two year contract. Don't want a new phone. Well you will still be paying the same regardless. Break the contract and you will still pay the same penalty. This seems to refute your claim that you are just paying back a subsidy.

Want a new phone with your new contract? OK, choose a "free" one from a list whose retail prices have a $150-$200 difference in price. Are you going to pay less per month if you opt for the cheaper (3g) free one? If your statement was true you should.

[mynameisvlad]

Generally, MVNO customers have lowest priority on a network. I know AT&T, for example, gives network priority to Postpaid first, then Prepaid, then MVNOs. So on a congested network, you'd be the first to be kicked off.

[Hengjie]

Generally speaking, I don't think the experience would be as bad as you say. Yes they get the lowest priority but given how good AT&T's network is, you generally won't be kicked off and would probably incur a reduction in speed. The reality is, you aren't going to need (insert super fast speed here) on a day to day basis. There are exceptions of course, such as tethering or streaming content, but really, how often would you be doing that and need it? This is why I don't buy the 4G argument, especially when there're carriers that ask us to pay more simply to be on 4G.

[draebek]

FWIW, Verizon MVNOs do not get to use Verizon's LTE network AFAIK. Actually, that may be the case with AT&T too? I'm not sure.

[anonymoushn]

AT&T MVNOs other than the two owned by AT&T do not seem to get to use LTE. That said, non-LTE 4G is fine.

[dwaltrip]

T-Mobile savings might be enough to more than cover the cost of breaking your contract. Their best plans are $30-$50 a month.

[jamiepenney]

Until they get big enough to put them in. I've run through this cycle before with ISPs here in New Zealand - they're great while they're small, then once they hit a double digit percentage of the market, they shit all over you - raise fees, cut service centres (or outsource them), and add fixed term contracts and other bollocks.

[001sky]

But at least there are no 2 year contracts...

The usa was 5 years behind the eu in forcing contracts, so yes this is just another marketing gimmick. classic bait & switch tactic. all of the carriers forced contracts after they bought out the regional mobile providers during the decade 1995-2005.

[devx]

Then you move to the "next" T-mobile. The point is to encourage this behavior, and punish the bad one by leaving as soon as it happens (same goes for Verizon/AT&T) now.

[rogerbinns]

T-Mobile in the US is a separate company. The German parent has tried to sell it in the past, and no doubt would gladly sell it in the future should a willing suitor come along and the regulators okay it (that caused the last sale to fail).

[hkmurakami]

To elaborate, Sprint and T-Mobile have been trying to merge, arguing that scale is fundamental in competing in the market. Regulators have argued that 4 carriers are essential to keeping parity and competition in the market.

[Guvante]

Actually Sprint and T-Mobile have never officially tried to merge. So far all the executives have done is deny that such talks are in progress.

At one point AT&T tried to buy T-Mobile, citing Verizon being bigger as why it was okay. They even put a bunch of money on the line if it fell through. Regulators decided that either they wanted 4 parties, or that Verizon would be forced to buy Sprint to compete, leaving 2 parties. (I am not 100% certain which they said was the reason)

[maxsilver]

Actually, Sprint and T-Mobile are both on-record as planning on merging. They aren't planning to do so in the immediate future, but they both see the long-term end game being just three carriers in the entire US.

All they are waiting for is the DOJ to make a mistake and let it slip through.

"T-Mobile exeutives say Sprint merger the 'logical conclusion'" http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4769794/t-mobile-executive...

"Sprint executives echo T-Mobile merger message" http://www.kansascity.com/2013/09/26/4509601/sprint-executiv...

[tracker1]

Aren't Sprint and T-Mobile using fairly different tech? Also, sprint is way over-sold

[shliachtx]

I believe the reason for the merger with MetroPCS was in order to spin it off. T-Mobile is now listed on the stock market, and Deutsche Telekom has an option to sell out - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_US#Merger_with_MetroPC....

[faddotio]

The marketplace isn't static. If all people move to T-Mobile, other carriers will be forced to become less hostile to their customers.

[arrrg]

Yeah, the goal is to have a marketplace where market pressures lead to all competitors being incentivized to behave like T-Mobile does currently. I’m just not sure whether that’s possible.

And I agree, Deutsche Telekom in Germany is awful and incompetent when it comes to customer service. If only their network weren’t so goddamn great … (It feels like a reversal of the situation in the US: Their technology is great and they are very competent at building their infrastructure – but how they treat customers is the exact opposite of that. And when I say technology I mean the network, not the technology they use to interface with customers. Stupid story time: Recently, after changing some notification SMS setting online, I got an e-mail thanking me for my change in contract and telling me that my monthly fee is €50, not the €50 minus €10 online ordering discount I knew I got when I entered into the contract. When calling their support hotline I was told that their system is apparently unable to display individual discounts on any and all communication with the customer except the monthly bill. The support agent also told me that I wasn’t the first person to call him because of that …)

[commandar]

>And I agree, Deutsche Telekom in Germany is awful and incompetent when it comes to customer service. If only their network weren’t so goddamn great … (It feels like a reversal of the situation in the US: Their technology is great and they are very competent at building their infrastructure – but how they treat customers is the exact opposite of that. And when I say technology I mean the network, not the technology they use to interface with customers.

Amusingly, you just described VZW in the United States. Fantastic network, absolutely awful at dealing with their customers.

[thirdsun]

Did you ever try D2/Vodafone? Not that they are significantly better - after all and as you know they are the other big one - but their prices are more competitive in my opinion and more importantly in my experience their network/infrastructure is far ahead. I'm always surprised by the weak reception some of my friends that actually use t-mobile suffer from - and this is not limited to certain areas, but more of a general impression I got.

[tomca32]

Exactly.

In Croatia, T-Mobile is absolutely the worst carrier. Highest fees, worst customer support. They can get away with it because they have the most customers and it's just too much of a hassle to change providers.

At least that's how it was around 3 years ago. I don't live there anymore so maybe something changed (I doubt it).

[shanac]

t-mobile isn't own by the same entity in Croatia

[tomca32]

Really? I was pretty sure that it's under T-HT, which is owned by Deutsche Telecom [1]. Is T-Mobile in US not owned by DT?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Hrvatski_Telekom

[shanac]

no, you are right

[thirdsun]

I was just going to say the same thing - here in Germany Deutsche Telekom is at the very opposite end of the spectrum: expensive plans, premium prices, no innovations to be found anywhere.

It is interesting how even huge corporations like Telekom adjust their marketing and overall strategy depending on their market position. I like how they handle their role as an underdog in the US, but I'm not under any illusions. This isn't a grand gesture of goodwill, but a necessary evil in their eyes, I guess.

[tammer]

Good point. I've been trumpeting T-mobile lately for all the reasons cited in the article, but you're correct the real problem is a lack of regulation. T-mobile is the underdog only because they haven't had the benefit of decades of scheming and lobbying.

[3327]

I would be shocked if this is not some intricate PR gimmick blog. Not saying T-mobile is bad or AtnT is bad or good. Just the article is shallow and nothing interesting.

[danielparks]

avc.com is the blog of a well-known venture capitalist, Fred Wilson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Wilson_(financier)

[joepour]

You say it like they are not already a massive telco. They might not have the market share in North America, but elsewhere they are very established.

[walshemj]

And its industry nick name was "Deutsche Bunders Pest" :-)