[joonix]

Doesn't matter for me. I hardly get much deep sleep due to anatomical issues essentially blocking my airways. I can't afford the surgery (even though I have insurance) nor will my government contribute to it (even though it would increase my productivity multiple times over, meanwhile they throw trillions at universities offering useless degrees).

But yes, we have a culture that doesn't value sleep. I know of people who schedule emails to be sent in the middle of the night just so they appear to be working all the time. Construction can begin at 7AM in NYC, waking up hundreds of people in surrounding buildings. Gas leaf blowers emit one of the most stressful drone sounds out in the suburbs, causing stress to dozens of neighbors, so one man can clear a pavement of dead leaves quicker.

And just this morning over Manhattan, a helicopter hovered at 6AM for at least an hour. An hour, sitting there, hovering, for God knows what reason, awaking possibly thousands of people early, causing possibly millions in lost productivity today.

[peacemaker]

You can really feel the anger in your comment and it resonates with me. I am a light sleeper and constantly amazed at what we as a society deem acceptable when it comes to noise at certain hours.

Why does the fire truck needs to blast its horns at 3am on a Tuesday going down a large empty street? There is no need and in some countries that would be against noise pollution laws. Doesn't seem to matter here.

Leaf blowers and lawn mowing at 7am on a Sunday are also a major annoyance yet I understand that some people, especially older people, like to get up early and who am I to complain that they do?

They say having a major lack of sleep is comparable to being intoxicated yet there are no protections in place to prevent it. Instead we wax on about "pulling an all-nighter" like it's a competition on who can be the most sleep deprived.

We live in a strange world.

[joonix]

Yes. I actually got into confrontations with the leaf blowers once (the manager, and the property owner). I also called the police because they are clearly violating the city's own noise ordinance. Nobody cares, the owner called me and told me that it doesn't matter because the work day starts at X a.m. What about people who work odd shifts, or students?

Resistance is futile. I just started using wax earplugs and find they make a huge difference and actually drown out a lot of noise.

[gte910h]

My city cites noise rather reliably (Atlanta). 12am grinder during the week? ticket

8am chain saw on the weekend? ticket.

[peacemaker]

Is this in all of Atlanta and the suburbs too? I've heard it's a nice place to live and this makes it sound even better!

[gte910h]

Just in the city. The exurbs and suburbs are still very much the south in all the ways the south is stereotyped (poor govt services, anti govt rhetoric, tons of gun culture, overly accepting of racism if not racism itself, bevy of fundamentalists in local and state govt, etc). Also hideous commutes for suburban living. While some people would feel at home there (especially if white and Christian), many others would not find it as normal as places in other regions of the country.

Atlanta (the city, not the region) is basically the freaks and geeks vacuum for the South (and also a middle class black mecca too). The city is great. The metro area is far more questionable. Tons of affordable homes in the city, tons of trees (we're literally "The City of Trees"), and lots of little pockets of whatever you like.

Some of the close in suburbs are more like Atlanta than it's suburbs, but honestly, it's go with a home in the city or go home IMO.

(Fulton county too, not DeKalb...it's complicated but important).

[frankzinger]

I am also a light sleeper. I lived in the centre of the city for almost three years. I used to get woken up at all hours. I started off with earplugs, but those hurt my ears. Eventually I started shutting my windows and curtains and putting a powerful fan on and it really works well.

Edit: a bonus one gets with the fan is that it also cools you off during summer when a shut window might have caused problems otherwise. (Aircon is uncommon here.)

[peacemaker]

Yes, when I lived on Powell street in SF (right on the cable car tracks) ear plugs were essential but they can become a crutch too. I've also come to the same conclusion as you about having a fan in the room.

[elwell]

i use a fan too. don't go too modern with your fan or might not be loud enough.

[mhurron]

> There is no need and in some countries that would be against noise pollution laws.

Emergency vehicles are exempt from those laws, as they should be. Safety is more important than your sleep. Trains blow their horns at crossings for the same reason.

Also, I have to laugh at your indignation at someone mowing their lawn at 7am because they are awake but you aren't right after complaining about an empty street at 3am because everyone is asleep.

[deltaqueue]

I have almost hit several emergency vehicles during the day due to my car's sound dampening and my car stereo (which doesn't have to be loud to block out sirens). At night, this has never happened because I have never not seen the seizure-inducing lights. My sample size may be less than a hundred, but you're making an assumption that piercing sirens at night are the most effective way to alert the public of an emergency. And for those blind pedestrians, low-frequency (or even lower decibel) sirens are more than sufficient.

I live on the 9th floor of a condo building that unfortunately has single-pane windows. If I don't have an extremely loud fan blowing, I will be woken up by everything from emergency vehicles to motorcyclists. I realize this comes with the territory of living in a city, but if cosmopolitan cities like Geneva can incorporate effective noise pollution laws* then there's room to improve.

* http://www.cagi.ch/en/logement/bruit-de-voisinage.php

[peacemaker]

> Also, I have to laugh at your indignation at someone mowing their lawn at 7am because they are awake but you aren't right after complaining about an empty street at 3am because everyone is asleep.

I'm not sure what you mean here? I was saying I don't think emergency vehicles need to use their sirens on a quiet street at 3 am in the morning. I was also bemoaning the use of leaf blowers at 7am on a Sunday. Both of those things are annoying yet "technically" I'd say 7am is probably a good time to consider as the start of the day and therefore removal of any noise restrictions. In fact, I think in the UK noise pollution restrictions apply from 11pm - 7am most nights.

[lelandbatey]

Only on reading this thread have I learned that I am a very heavy sleeper. I've always taken for granted that low level noise is easy to sleep through. Now I feel:

1. Bad that I've caused as much noise as I have at some times.

2. Very sorry for those of you that have to deal with easily disturbed sleep.

[grannyg00se]

To me it seems we have a culture that doesn't value well-being in general. People might say that they do, but the entire culture is set up against it. Sleep is just one more neglected aspect of well-being. We also have ridiculous working hours, insane commutes, pathetic diet and exercise habits, and a health record to show for it. Keeping busy at one's job is valued above most else.

[drzaiusapelord]

>Keeping busy at one's job is valued above most else.

I also hate how our smalltalk starts with "What do you do for a living?" That's a fair question, but its depressing when that's the first one and all we really talk about.

Its a puritan's overworked culture serving the elites. This shutdown is about this as well. We really need to have European-style vacation time and healthcare. I hope my generation gets it right and the status quo of the baby boomers is seen as the horrific thing that it truly is.

[baddox]

> I also hate how our smalltalk starts with "What do you do for a living?" That's a fair question, but its depressing when that's the first one and all we really talk about.

What's so depressing about that, and what would you suggest people ask instead? People's careers take up a lot of their time and provide their livelihood, and a lot of people are quite proud of their careers. Sure, things like sleep and diet are probably more fundamental to a person's wellbeing, but it's pointless to start smalltalk with "how much sleep have you been getting?" or "what is your diet like?".

[RodericDay]

have you tried it?

idk who you hang out with but those last two questions would probably produce more interesting conversations than the former.

[jerf]

'I also hate how our smalltalk starts with "What do you do for a living?"'

I consider it a clear improvement over its primary competition in other cultures, "Where are you from?" and "Who are your parents?" At least this one, if you don't like the answer you're giving, you have power to change it.

[tomsaffell]

>our smalltalk starts with "What do you do for a living?"

I agree - it's not good small-talk. Since this was pointed out to me (~15 years ago) I've made a conscious effort never to ask people what they do for a living. One friend I knew for a year before I found out what he did (that's a rare situation, granted). If you haven't tried it then I highly recommend it.

[zck]

I love this idea, but I've struggled with what to replace it with. "Tell me about yourself" is the best thing I've come up with, but it sounds like an interview. "What are you interested in?" is another option, but it too sounds formal. I want to ask people what they care about without having it be awkward. How do you open small talk with someone you've just met?

[tomsaffell]

Good question, but I think the answer is in the question:

  I want to __ask__ people what they __care__ about... 
  How do you open __small talk__ ...

I would make small talk about something small, like the weather (I'm British :), or about whatever common experience around us we're sharing (the music, how bumpy the bus is, how full the flight is). Taking a random walk through conversation-space should fairly quickly get to something that they care about, so long as they want to talk, and have their self-interest-heuristic turned on.

So I don't think you need to seek what they care about. You just need to make the conversation worth continuing and it will get their on its own.

[scott_s]

"What do you do for fun?"

[collyw]

"How do you spend your time" is a good alternative. If people are out of work, or hate their job, it doesn't alienate them, yet allows them to talk about it if it is important to them.

[brightsize]

>I also hate how our smalltalk starts with "What do you do for a living?"

In my experience this usually takes the form of "what do you do?" The question irks me because I know that what's implied is the "for work" part, and that in turn implies that somehow, the way I make money is the signature aspect of my being. The assumption is built in to our [American] society of course. My response to this query is always either "do for what?" or a list of things that I do that I consider important (walk, ride my bike, work out, travel, listen to jazz, read ...).

[guiomie]

I've removed commuting of my daily life. I can now enjoy between 1 hour to 2 hours a night more sleep because of this... feels great to sleep 8-9 hours every night.

[Havoc]

>To me it seems we have a culture that doesn't value well-being in general.

It seems very much up to the individual to fight the battle. i.e. pay for gym, make an effort to go & pay for healthy food etc.

[gte910h]

Have you had a sleep study done? It's 2 doctors office visits, 2 nights in a funky hotel room type lab, and they will often prescribe a machine called a CPAP if you really do have obstructive sleep problems.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/cpap/

They're a little uncomfortable at first, but they get the job done.

[r00fus]

I just spoke with my doctor regarding CPAPs recently, and the price has gone down considerably since I looked into it a few years ago… I hear it's less than a thousand

I don't need one (mild hypopnea) yet, but it's nice to know that options exist.

I had a coworker who, years ago, had sleep apnea (would fall asleep at keyboard at work), who subsequently got a CPAP and it's a night and day difference. I'm really glad for his improvements.

[Mithaldu]

> I hardly get much deep sleep due to anatomical issues essentially blocking my airways. I can't afford the surgery (even though I have insurance)

I have snore-caused sleep apnea, are you referring to that? If so, a CPAP device could help you. It's a small cube you put on your nightdesk with a tube and a face (or nose) mask attached to it that allows you clear breathing, but increases pressure in your respiratory system so you won't snore as easily. I live in germany and my insurance covered it, but even if yours doesn't, 1k$ isn't too much for such a thing:

http://www.thecpapshop.com/resmed-s9-autoset-cpap-machine-wi...

[nashequilibrium]

In LA the trash get's collected at 5am, it feels as though i have the trash cans next to me that's how loud it is. To top this off, they building an off ramp nearby, so i wake up at 1am but i can hear this drilling in the distance very faint, it doesn't disturb me, but i can hear it. I started thinking about those people living right there, how the hell are they sleeping, these guys are drilling 1am in the morning!

[pfortuny]

I am with you.

In my neighborhood, the trash collecting on Sundays takes place (for whatever "reason") at, believe it or not, 6:15AM. Then the recycling people appear later on, at 8:15AM.

I guess they are trying to get people motivated during the week-end?

[dragonwriter]

More likely, they have a finite number of trucks and staff, and any reasonable arrangement of them is going to result in someone's neighborhood getting hit at 6:15AM on Sunday, and you just got lucky.

[pfortuny]

I doubt it: Sunday is not the only day of trash-collection, there are plenty of cleaning stuff in this city. The problem is we (well, the city council) are obsessed with cleanliness to absurd levels. You will be amazed at the number of gardening stuff we have for a city like mine...

[AndrewDucker]

Particularly when aircraft noise is correlated with heart disease risk:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131009100602.ht...

[makeset]

That said, there is a special place in hell for people who move next to an airport and then complain about the noise. The special place next to hell's airport.

[lostlogin]

We are probably 7-10km from an airport, but to the side, not in line with runway. We checked out the noise, multiple time a week for months prior to buying. We moved in. Then without warning the airport changes the flight paths to be over our house to make a few more pennies. It's been a bit painful to them so far (see link), and we will see how it goes. I set up an email template and just fill in the time and hit send to the noise complaints section at the council, aviation authority and local MP. It's quite therapeutic. They are installing a noise monitoring thing in our back garden this week at some expense (30k of gear they tell me). http://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/9162498/Auckland...

[gmac]

I laughed at this, but to be fair, property is cheaper where it's noisier, so some people may not feel they have the choice.

[gaius]

Or move to the country and complain about roosters crowing!

[nashequilibrium]

I wonder what are all the scenarios that lead to this pattern "sleep deprived ---> low energy levels ---> less activity ---> weight gain ---> heart disease ---> death". Another issue i wonder is about will power, if self control is mentally taxing, therefore your diet should be affected as well.

[CamperBob2]

I wonder how they took exhaust emissions out of the equation? Aircraft noise is disturbing as hell when you first encounter it, either because you moved under a flight path or because the flight path moved over you, but in my experience you just don't hear it anymore after a few weeks. It's one of the easier environmental sounds to tune out.

[drzaiusapelord]

Sleep apnea? I have it too and couldn't stomach the CPAP machine. I read my sleep report and it turns out I didn't have any symptoms on my side. So I trained myself to sleep on my side and the symptoms went away. I wish my doctor told me that was an option before spending thousands on treatments, not to mention the time and stress of it all.

If side sleeping doesn't help, I know there are DIY oral appliances you can buy. They're usually marketed just for snoring, but have the same effect on SA. You need to boil it, put it in your mouth so it gets an impression of your teeth, let it cool and wear it at night. It keeps your mouth open enough to help with airway issues. Might as well try it. I think its $20.

[crazygringo]

As to the sounds -- it's not a perfect fix, but combinations of ear plugs / ear-plug-style-headphones / white noise can do wonders, both during sleep and in noisy offices, or when helicopters/leaf blowers/etc. are going.

When construction in Manhattan starts at 7am on Saturday, it wakes me up, but I put the ear plugs back in and turn on white noise and I'm fine. When I'm at work and there's a helicopter or union strike or noisy coworker, I throw in the in-ear headphones (they form a seal) and turn on the white noise app on my phone. It totally sucks we have to do these things, but they can help a lot.

[mike_esspe]

Properly installed double glazing will block almost all sound, why not install them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulated_glazing

[r00fus]

I have double-pane glass with an Argon spacer, and live close to a minor road that gets daily traffic (school/commute times). Plenty of sound gets through; the most effective sound insulating filler (Sulfur hexaflouride) is no longer available due to being a highly potent greenhouse gas.

[MasterXen]

I heard the hovering helicopter too (it was yesterday morning IIRC); it was around until at least 8am. I was so surprised by the continual sound (rather than passing-by) that I even googled how long a helicopter can hover for on a full tank.

[larrys]

Would suggest to anyone concerted with noise (not you I understand you have another issue as well) to get custom fitted ear plugs.

Can be done by an an Audiologist.

Make sure to also use the lubricant as well (helps with comfort and importantly blocks more sound). Price I paid was under $100. Bought a 2nd pair. They are great much better than the temporarily sound plugs (not to mention cheaper in the long run).

[gshakir]

"I know of people who schedule emails to be sent in the middle of the night just so they appear to be working all the time."

Why do they do it? Sounds unethical. What sort of industry they are in?