[onli]

But the data is being collected anyway.

[lispm]

The Verfassungsgericht ruled that collected data had to be deleted.

Sure provides may store data for themselves - for example for billing purposes.

[onli]

And such data can be accessed by law enforcement agencies, see http://dejure.org/gesetze/TKG/113.html (also the old version).

[lispm]

Sure, why not. I'm not against that. This has to happen on a case by case basis.

[PavlovsCat]

No, it was being collected, until the Bundesverfassungsgericht put a stop to that, and now the EU is pouting, which is still in progress.

[onli]

I wish that were true. The data is collected anyway by the ISPs, but not necessarily stored 6 month (sometimes longer, sometimes shorter) and not on that foundation. There were some legal proceedings because of that.

[PavlovsCat]

Then why the talk about Germany paying 300 000 € a day for violating the EU directive? ( http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/vorratsdatenspeich... )

A source would be kinda nice. Not because I doubt it's possible, but simply because I haven't heard of it.

[onli]

Those are different things. Just because there is no law forcing the ISPs to collect the data and providing a specific exchange interface following the EU directive, doesn't mean that germany has no other laws giving access to the data the ISPs collect anyway; and other laws permitting ISPs to collect those data. See § 113 TKG as source, which I linked below - it is not a secret.

edit: I'm trying to make that more clear. The difference is that right now, they are not forced by law to collect those data, hence the penalty and lawsuit from the EU. But they may do so - and that is done in practice -, and there is a law that if they do, law enforcement can get access.

[PavlovsCat]

Just because there is no law forcing the ISPs to collect the data and providing a specific exchange interface following the EU directive, doesn't mean that germany has no other laws giving access to the data the ISPs collect anyway

And who claimed it hasn't? I didn't.

You said "the data" is being collected anyway. This, without any further elaboration, seemed to imply "the data that the EU data detention directive would cover", and not "the data ISPs collect to enable their operations".

I think the difference is that if an ISP wants to collect as little as possible, and anonymize/delete any data they don't absolutely need anymore, that'd be legal; If the police wants it 12 months later, they can just say "sorry, we don't have it anymore", provided that's truthful. Under the EU data detention directive that's no more, as not keeping the data for at least X months would be verboten.

[onli]

> And who claimed it hasn't? I didn't.

You did, in a way, with

> No, it was being collected, until the Bundesverfassungsgericht put a stop to that

Have a look at http://www.datenschmutz.de/moin/TK-Verkehrsdaten as to which data are currently saved and for how long, keep in mind that the mentioned numbers are old (but realize that collected Bestandsdaten includes data from people with flatrate, which would never be necessary for billing purposes).