[3327]

YES the NSA's mission is to spy. We are fine with that but NOT domestically. We are not fine with that.

In the borders of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA according to the 4th Amendment of te UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION domestic spying is not legal.

1: NSA should be subject to accountability like everyone in this country 2: All NSA activities should be restricted to foreign intelligence gathering.

This is the jist of it.

[dllthomas]

Not all of us are "fine with that"; we've just agreed to focus primarily on the bits where we have the broader support.

[ajuc]

So existence of organisation with particular goal is good enough reason to pursue that goal, no matter if its ethical or no?

Seriously Americans, what's wrong with you?

[cobrausn]

It is absolutely colorblind to be calling out America specifically as 'unethical' because it spies on foreigners. Every government ever spies on foreigners - some just do it more than others. Hell, Germany just convicted a Russian spy couple not one week ago (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23145426).

I'm not convinced the whole game is worth the effort, but I'm not going to pretend there isn't an actual need for government intelligence gathering. And there are quite a few of us who see a big distinction between targeted intelligence gathering and broad spectrum communications interception.

[dgunn]

I think your comment was intended for me.

Their goal is protect the US. Do you think there are no threats within our borders? Seriously Americans, what's wrong with you?

See? We can all try to make each other look stupid if we want. It doesn't make your opinion correct. Show me how I will be negatively affected by the NSA continuing to do what they've always done. I assure you, I can be convinced if you're right and I'm wrong. I just can't see the down side.

[ajuc]

Secret services spying on each other is a sad reality, but till now all countries spied on each other spies/politicians/diplomats etc, not on regular people. When you work at embassy you know from the start thay you are under observation. It's like soldier going to a war for money - it was his choice. Spying on everybody is like killing civilians at war. It's worse.

Another analogy - putting everybody from a street in jail just in case. The fact that you can put criminals in jail and every country does this (and sometimes jail innocent people by error) doesn't make putting in jail EVERYBODY and releasing them when they prove they are innocent acceptable.

You may be not affected, but that doesn't make it any less evil. I am not affected by the lack of LGBT rights in Poland, but I still support them, cause it's stupid to revoke rights from people without reason.

Also allowing people to get so much power make it almost impossible to later revoke that power when they switch their goals or abuse it. Who can guarant you that nobody uses PRISM for personal benefit? Like people betting on stock exchange because they read that some company is going to default in private emails, and all other people on stock lose their money to these assholes? That's just the first example that came to my mind. Do you trust every person in NSA that they won't do such stuff? Or are you OK with it?

There is a point after which "to protect my country" is not good enough excuse to revoke people rights.

I have right to not trust officials from foreign country (that I have no way to vote out of office) with my secrets. They already are doing crazy stuff. Are you OK with what USA is doing to Snowden? Cause I'm not.

[3327]

> Also allowing people to get so much power make it almost impossible to later revoke that power when they switch their goals or abuse it. Who can guarant you that nobody uses PRISM for personal benefit? Like people betting on stock exchange because they read that some company is going to default in private emails, and all other people on stock lose their money to these assholes? That's just the first example that came to my mind. Do you trust every person in NSA that they won't do such stuff? Or are you OK with it?

I agree with this statement,

I would like to add: That this nation was built on a very powerful constitution. What makes America different than most nations is that the Constitution amendments are like Axioms. Unlike many places these rules cannot be changed, shifted or broken. Yes I am saying that the US constitution is stronger than any other constitution out there today.

The forefathers lived in a very different age but were bright people. Technology changes, times change but human nature and instinct does not. If we do not stand for the constitution and what it means you will be accepting a different reality and a different America. We will die time will continue but to ensure that America is what it was intended to be we must show our presence today and protect the basic civil rights of Americans.

>Their goal is protect the US. Do you think there are no threats within our borders? Seriously Americans, what's wrong with you?

There were always threats within our borders. Thats why we have the DEA, FBI, ATF, Homeland Sec., etc.

Billions of dollars of data and wire tapping is not going to protect you. A person with will an intent to do evil will and can do it no matter what.

However, if the solution is to give up our civil liberties which makes this country the best place on earth in panic, distrust and spying on our own people; then we have already lost and they (evil) have won.

[dgunn]

One, I don't think the NSA isn't allowed to spy domestically. The NSA is charged with collecting foreign and counter intelligence in an effort to protect the interests of the US. If there is an intelligence need which requires domestic collection methods, you better believe they are allowed, by law, to collect.

Even if they weren't allowed to spy domestically, I'm not convinced that would be an appropriate limitation on the NSA. They are the best at this type of intelligence collection. As long as the US has enemies within it's own borders, tying the hands of people who can help us is going to be a pretty bad idea.

[ajuc]

> As long as the US has enemies within it's own borders, tying the hands of people who can help us is going to be a pretty bad idea.

You are aware that this sentence sounds like from worst communist propaganda from stalinist period?

[3327]

> As long as the US has enemies within it's own borders, tying the hands of people who can help us is going to be a pretty bad idea.

A constant state of fear, always at war, our enemies are about to attack us.

Isn't this what North Korea fuels the fire with?

I will be protesting and the point is that a multibillion dollar infringement of the constitution is not whats going to stop domestic "enemies". Its stemming hate and spreading peace that will ultimately matter. If someone is willing to attack you, if they are smart, and if they have nothing to loose and are willing to die for it then NOTHING, NOTHING can stop them. Not even Minority Report.

We whom will protest will protest because there are other ways to attain these goals, without breaking the constitution.

[dgunn]

> A constant state of fear, always at war, our enemies are about to attack us. Isn't this what North Korea fuels the fire with?

If you think a country this size could ever reach the point of having no enemies, you are delusional. We will never be close to this condition. Spreading peace sounds great. In fact, I fully believe that the highest calling of mankind is to respect and care for others. I don't want hate and fear. But I'm also not delusional. We are a highly targeted country. We have enemies and will continue to have them inside and outside of our borders. Recognizing that does not make me or any other rational person a fear monger. Not recognizing it makes you appear naive.

[ajuc]

The point isn't that there are no enemies. The point is that the cure is worse than the sickness.

Anyway, what are you worrying about? Another 9/11? Car accidents are more probable causes of death, and you could eliminate most of them cheaper and with no ethical issues, boosting economy as a byproduct (build fast railroads, subsidize the tickets). Gun ownership is another low hanging fruit. Hell, even just making flying cheaper and more accessible will probably save more lives than NSA.

[dgunn]

> Anyway, what are you worrying about? Another 9/11?

Yes. Of course. I want NSA to keep horrible things like that from happening.

Yes. There are other ways to die than terrorist attacks. They're also bad? I'm really not sure where you're going with this.

I haven't been noticeably affected by the NSA collecting data on me. I can't think of many ways in which I would be affected. I would probably be affected if I were interested in doing something illegal and needed to communicate with someone about it. I'm ok with that reality.

Seriously, someone chime in if you've been negatively affected by the NSA collecting coms data on you. Everyone acts like its the end of the world but it all seems like hype to me. Just another way to get traffic to a news site. One thing I haven't heard is how it's affecting people. People didn't even know it was happening til some guy decided to tell them. If something can go unnoticed for this long, how horrible could it be? Everyone's just creeped out by it and I guess I don't care.