[chriswilliams]

Hey Richard,

I disagree. "Lean startup" (I've only skimmed, not read) is all about teaching coders to sell. Correct me if I'm wrong, no code should be written unless there is market demand.

The challenge is not selling ONCE you have a solid product, it's going from NOTHING to something.

Chris

[codewright]

You haven't read "Lean Startup" yet you're leaning on it as a source of authority?

And you sign your comments as if we can't see your bloody username?

I have read Lean Startup and guided the development of products based on it so let me tell what (some of) Lean Startup says:

1. Make the simplest possible thing that could validate your hypothesis (a well formed one) against the market.

2. Use real data and principled hypotheses backed by data to guide product iteration once you've established a market response to one of your MVPs.

The key part being here - MAKING the thing.

What the book doesn't say is, "sell ice to eskimos, hire outsourced coders, hope for the best".

I've worked at startups dictated by salespeople or their sales process, it was a goddamn mess.

[richardjordan]

I've read Lean Startup and followed ER's work since he was doing the start up lessons learned blog. However he doesn't advocate salespersons as founders and CEOs, he advocates for a set of principles and practices which allow startup founders to test products in the market. This isn't the same thing.

[thedufer]

> The challenge is not selling ONCE you have a solid product, it's going from NOTHING to something.

That kind of mentality is exactly how we ended up with the dot-com bubble. For a couple years, everyone who wanted to got from nothing to something. Remind me what happened next?

[hluska]

First, if you haven't read it, how do you know what it's about??

Second, did you skim over anything about the build-measure-learn loop? If so, let's say that you have an idea, build a first (completely fake) version, and get it in front of people. The next step would be to build something that works, right? If you're completely non-technical, how do you find people to take you to that step (and to do it elegantly enough that you can not only learn, but build on top of what you have learned)?

[lukethomas]

The point is that unless someone is paying your bills, you need to charge from the very beginning. It's supply/demand equation - your goal from the beginning should be to determine the demand, make sales, and fill the need with your offering.

[hluska]

I'm aware of that.

I just can't imagine how a wholly non-technical salesperson could go from validating there is a demand to actually fulfilling the demand without either finding a technical co-founder, becoming technical or else winning the freelance lottery.

[craigching]

Sometimes vision goes beyond what the market currently demands and changes the dynamics of the market. So "no code should be written unless there is market demand" seems a bit short-sighted to me. If you're a visionary, you're seeing beyond what the market demands.