[eksith]

Really? This is what it's come down to? Parenting and separation via day-planner. No wonder so many of my friends aren't getting married.

A common law marriage is likely to last a lot longer these days since, well, it's not common law unless you've been together for a while. Sometimes years.

This is also another reason why parents who ignore their children's feelings when getting a divorce are a bunch of inconsiderate bastards. You can argue all you want about how things are just not working out, but unless one of you is abusive or reckless, there are no irreconcilable differences. You just suck at getting along with each other and you should have thought about that more before having kids.

Got to therapy, go to counselling, try anything to hold it off until your kids are at least older teenagers.

Wanna know what's really destroying the sanctity of marriage? Abuse, Adultery and Divorce.

[whalesalad]

I can't stand hearing this kind of fud. My parents divorced when I was ten. My dad was accused of being abusive. He may or may not have been, I'm not sure on all the details. Regardless, I turned out fine. I had to go to court. I had to talk to police at random intervals. I could only see my dad a few times a month for a few hours, or every other weekend. They were strange circumstances. But this bullshit about stay together for the kids is complete horseshit. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm livid.

My father has since remarried and is extremely happy with his wife and my two little half sisters. My other sister and I are doing great. I'm starting a company in Sweden and my sister is about to finish her bachelors from USC. My mom is doing great and just adopted a new puppy. Everyone is happy and the shit show is over.

Alternatively had they stayed together... There would have been MOUNTAINS upon mountains of resentment inside of our household. Fuuuuuuuck that no thank you. Kids are tough. They grow up and will be fine if they are loved and supported by their family members... Regardless of whether or not they were divorced.

This bullshit excuse that divorce damages and gives a kid post traumatic stress is false. As we all know most marriages in America end in divorce, so I have a lot of friends with divorced parents. They're all fine. I've never sat with any of them and pouted or wept over my life.

Correlation does not prove causation.

[eksith]

It didn't happen to my family, therefore it doesn't happen right? Thanks for glossing over the therapy and counselling bit.

FYI the age, gender, temperament, environment, household size, family income, income disparity between parents, support or lack of support of other adults in the immediate family, support or lack of support of other children, association with children comparable age/gender/temperament, association with children of different age/gender/temperament etc... etc... one of the few things people miss out when they cite "I'm well adjusted therefore..." as opposed to the legion of people actually studying the effects of divorce on children.

Suffice it to say, your experience with divorce wasn't mine or many others' for that matter. I don't wanna turn this into a flame war, so I'll end it here.

[mgarfias]

Agreed whole heartedly. Dad remarried when I was 13, then spent the next 12 years fighting her in court. Now, that was one marriage that absolutely was not savable.

In my case, there was some long simmering resentment due to a certain someone (not i) being a cheating ho and lying about it. Resolving this would have required said certain party to come clean, and rebuild the relationship. Instead, my insecurities were used against me (I was controlling asshole according to her), and she actively worked to decimate my self esteem. I literally spent years not understanding that I was pissed at her, and why I was so. Then she withdrew from the relationship, supposedly because I was pissed at her, but I suspect really due to abuse suffered as a child. I became the representation of that, she withdrew completely from me, and then I got lonely, hurt, confused, and angrier.

I tried talking to her about being lonely, and was blown off. Eventually, I realized that I was f'in pissed at her, and when I tried to discuss all that came out was bile and hatred. Thats when I knew things were unfixable. Counseling was suggested by her at this point, but I had zero desire to be told all things I did wrong by two people instead of just one. I was done.

Eventually, she did come clean, and somehow expected things to be fixed. All in all I'm soooooo glad we decided to end the relationship, I had zero idea how stressed I was constantly by the relationship.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

The problem is that on the surface it sounds like a good thing, but the reality can be very different.

When people would ask me if I was bothered that my parents were not married, my usual answer was "no, because they would certainly have divorced, or my life would have sucked in a major way." I've seen my parents together enough to know that although they were always polite to each other (at least when I was around) that there is no way they would have stayed together.

Likewise, my wife says the opposite: her parents waited many years too long to get divorced and she suffered for it.

As as result when she and I considered getting divorced (in the end, we didn't) the one thing we could agree on is that every step we took had to consider the impact on the children. That doesn't mean staying together "for their sake" but it did mean not dragging them through the mud with us.

[danilocampos]

I'm not sure that this is the best venue for pearl clutching or preaching.

What's known is that a substantial number of marriages do end in divorce. These divorces are extremely painful and expensive. The reasons for divorce might be as varied as the number of people getting them, but the procedures involved are rarely unique.

So all of that is an obvious recipe for disrupting an existing industry and printing money in the process. Good on them.

[tapatio]

As they say, the reason divorce is so expensive is because it's worth it.

[eksith]

I just don't believe in marriage as an institution; especially when it's such a farce for so many people to begin with. Kicking this sacred cow has consequences so my feeling is, let's not make it sacred. If consenting adults want to do whatever, let them do whatever.

I've got no problem with anyone who wants to get divorced if there are no children involved since that kind of breakup (no matter how smooth people try to make it) will have negative consequences.

[danilocampos]

I agree entirely that marriage, especially with its cultural underpinnings of extravagance and expense, is just so much bullshit.

But it's there in huge numbers, people do it for all the wrong reasons, and there's no obvious way out of that for a few decades. So in the meantime I'm going to celebrate anyone who can unwind the miseries of people subjected to this nonsense. Keeping people out of court is very much a good thing.

[ams6110]

I don't think many people consider "for better or worse" or "until death" as literals anymore (if they ever really did). If you can't really commit to those promises, don't get married.

[saraid216]

> Kicking this sacred cow has consequences so my feeling is, let's not make it sacred.

That sounds wonderful. Make it so.

[thenomad]

Bitter, resentful people attempting to fake being in love for the sake of their children whilst hating every minute of being together doesn't work very well either.

Remember, children model expectations for future life on what they see from role models, notably parents. Subconciously imprinting them with the belief that a relationship should be unhappy, fake and filled with resentment and anger isn't great.

Not to mention that a home inhabited by two people who don't want to be there just isn't a very nice environment for a child.

[DanBC]

> A common law marriage is likely to last a lot longer these days since, well, it's not common law unless you've been together for a while. Sometimes years.

Just pointing out that in the UK there's no such thing as "common law marriage" even though lots of people think it is a thing. People who are not married (or civil partnered) don't have as many automatic rights when their partner dies.

[eksith]

Ah, I didn't know that. I guess there are bound to be legal complications from no official recognition for being partners so that makes a will of some sort all the more important. Especially when children are involved.