[Aurornis]

> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright

I think you're looking at this too much from the perspective of someone who wants to own the phone, not as someone who wants to consider a lease.

Leases are not a new invention. A lot of people, including very financially savvy and well off people, choose to lease rather than buy depending on the circumstances.

It preserves optionality. If you get to the end of the lease period and there’s a new iPhone you want or the battery isn’t holding up, you can choose not to buy it. You don’t have to deal with selling it or trading in.

If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front. I don’t understand what your argument is.

> So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one - they want to turn a one-time device purchase into a perpetual monthly revenue stream, while keeping ownership of the asset at the end.

It’s an option. They’re not turning anything into anything. Anyone who wants to buy the device can buy it. You now also have the option to lease it for 12 or 24 months and then after that you can still buy it if you want. Or you can not buy it.

It’s options. You don’t have to use it.

[paxys]

> If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front.

That’s the entire point. They would have bought a cheaper phone, or held on to their old one, but are now paying perpetual monthly payments.

There’s a reason car dealerships never ask “how much can you afford”, but “how much do you want to pay every month”.

There’s a reason Klarna is running the program for them.

[Spooky23]

What if I don’t want to “own my phone”?

Look, I have one camera with me and one child. As long as the camera gets better every year, I’m gonna want a better camera, every year. I don’t want to deal with carriers and trade-in shopping. Unfortunately this particular deal sucks compared tot he old one.

I’m not financially irresponsible. I value these devices highly and value my time.

[spaqin]

No one's really stopping you from owning nothing and being happy.

[Spooky23]

They did - they turned a 24 month loan/AppleCare that you could re-swizzle with a new phone and exchange the device on the same terms (except the cost delta for the phone) to a shitty leasing arrangement that costs 25% more.

[Aurornis]

You know those financially irresponsible people don’t need this program, right? They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms

You seem tilted at Apple for offering a financing option, but your real gripe is apparently with some people who have poor financial decision making skills. Those people could (and probably would) do a lot worse with traditional options like a credit card.

Can we at least compare apples to apples (hah) and look at the actual terms of the program here? Honestly they're not bad, and I say that as someone who leans toward purchasing outright.

[apparent]

> You know those financially irresponsible people don’t need this program, right? They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms

I thought of this also. The question is whether they will now spend even more on the phone since they won't be paying as much in interest. If so, it's savvy of Apple to suck up that difference instead of letting it go to credit card companies.

Presumably Klarna's share is lower because Apple is rumored to be able to nerf these devices if a series of payments are missed. [1]

1: https://9to5mac.com/2026/07/21/ios-27-code-suggests-apple-co...

[edoceo]

From that lens this is a better option for the "buyer" (renter). Cause revolving credit is >10%, sometimes even more than 15%!

[ChrisMarshallNY]

15%?

Oh, sweet summer child...

https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/highest-credit-card-interes...

[edoceo]

Oof.

[HeWhoLurksLate]

> They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms

average credit card interest rate: 18-25% APR [0][1] average klarna effective interest rate:25-33% APR [2]

getting what are effectively individual lines of credit per-burrito or iphone is crazy work and I wouldn't recommend it most of the time. Save some money up, people!

[0] https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/research/current... [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/credit-cards/average-credit-c... [2] https://wealthvieu.com/debt/credit-card-debt/klarna-review/

[Aurornis]

> average klarna effective interest rate:25-33% APR [2]

> getting what are effectively individual lines of credit per-burrito or iphone is crazy work and I wouldn't recommend it most of the time.

I think this whole sub-thread has gone off track from people who aren't reading the actual terms of the Apple deal.

Nobody's talking about getting a 33% Klarna loan for an iPhone or burrito. You included 2 statistics and 3 citations that have nothing to do with the program we're talking about.

We're trying to talk about the Apple program in the link, not some other financial services complaints that people have about other things.

[nekooooo]

it's a 0% loan with a buyout at the end for 2 years though. not 33% APR.

[aucisson_masque]

> It preserves optionality. If you get to the end of the lease period and there’s a new iPhone you want or the battery isn’t holding up, you can choose not to buy it. You don’t have to deal with selling it or trading in.

If you don't buy it at the end of the 24 month, you've been paying for a very costly lease.

2/3 of the price for a 24 month lease whereas iphones are updated for 7, 8 years ? And the resell value is very good.

Especially financially, it would make zéro sense.

[Twisell]

That is the actual point of this program.

Apple clearly pay the fees for the customers loan but at the end, the only real mistake the customer can make and might regret is switching out of the Apple ecosystem.

That's clever and only mildly evil. Financial savvy people will use it as a "no fee loan" if they can't pay upfront. Less savvy will be more receptive to the commercial discourse at the end of the lease. Eco-deniers will think twice before renewing every year.

And it's actually a consolidation of existing options because Apple already offered "no fee loan" here in EU but you had to choose the option to begin with. Now it's look like this is a single contract and you choose the option at the end of the lease.

[madeofpalk]

People are keeping their phones for longer and longer. This makes it as attractive as possible to pay for a new phone at a more frequent rate.

The bet here is that Apple would much rather you spend ~$35/month perpetually than $1200 every 4 years.

This is a 'good deal' if you're already someone who upgrades their phone frequently, but I would imagine this would end up getting a whole bunch of people to pay more money in the long run to Apple.

[Dylan16807]

It's also a good deal if you want to keep the phone for 8 years. Just make sure you take the buy option.

[paganel]

> Leases are not a new invention.

The Davos ghouls are proven right each and every day:

> You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy

Back to indentured servitude we go, where by "we" I mean us, the poors, not the wealthy, nor their relatively still well-off direct servants (like many of the users here working for Big Tech).

[Mistletoe]

Why on earth are we leasing phones now???

[throw0101a]

> Why on earth are we leasing phones now???

Same reason some people lease cars:

* want the New Thing regularly

* are happier with OpEx than CapEx (can be handy for business/accounting reasons)

[wolvoleo]

I think people don't really buy phones every year anymore because they can't afford it. But because they're kinda meh year on year. I don't buy apple anymore but my Samsung S23 from 3 years ago has the exact same cameras as the current S26. Same screen, same form factor. Only thing that's new is a slightly faster SoC and a bit more memory for AI features I dont really use anyway. I just don't see the point in upgrading anymore.

[SV_BubbleTime]

Some upgrades are meh, occasionally I want one thing. Like next upgrade I really want a higher optical zoom than 3x.

But I think unlike leasing vehicles, where the vehicle has the same power (approximately and within usable limits) the new phones bring a new battery. If swappable battery was a thing everywhere; that would further depress the sale of new phones.

[0x457]

Well, lets do math:

- from this thread: iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it

If you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years then what you pay for the phone is something like "full cost - optimistic trade-in value". I see no reason not to do if you know you going to upgrade.

[horsawlarway]

I don't understand this mindset. I get that people who are going to upgrade to the latest flagship phone every 18-24 months will probably do better with this, but realistically... those people are fucking insanely financially irresponsible (and if you can afford it - no shade, I guess, its your money - lord knows I burn lots of cash on hobby projects of my own, although I tend to buy things that are actually projects, and not just glitz...)

But there's just nothing to run on phones built in the last 5+ years that actually puts the hardware through its paces (in the phone form factor, laptops and desktops I'd be lot more forgiving on). The cameras aren't really getting better. The battery capacities seem to be mostly "the same". There's just no practical "reason" to justify the expense at this point (and I'll fully acknowledge this wasn't always the case - there was a period there in the early 2010s where phones were getting better rapidly and upgrading was a big deal).

They're basically buying an expensive piece of jewelry that they'll throw away in 24 months. Like... just buy a cheaper model and get some real jewelry. At least that could be passed down at some point instead of becoming e-waste.

[ZekeSulastin]

So how much annually do you spend on your hobbies, anyways, if you're going to declare getting a new phone every two years "fucking insanely financially irresponsible" :p Glass houses and all that, right?

[olyjohn]

I mean... what kind of hobby is owning the latest phone? Especially when the latest phone is barely an upgrade over the previous one.

[blackqueeriroh]

Do you know what’s cool about hobbies? They don’t have to be reasonable! They don’t have to be financially responsible! They’re hobbies! That’s the whole point!

Listen, whatever you do that’s your hobby I’m certain is also a giant waste of money and very financially irresponsible. And if not, learn how to have fun and stop being so boring.

[what]

People spend more on their daily coffee than they would upgrading their phone every two years. Significantly more.

[p1necone]

Yeah I'm on the same page - I spend a couple hundred bucks on a low-end-of-midrange android phone every few years (usually because I broke the old one by doing something stupid like walking into the ocean with it in my pocket). I can't fathom why I would want to spend 5-10x on a flagship to do... what exactly?

My current phone (Motorola g34) runs all the games fine, and that's probably the heaviest thing people use phones for. I do take photos, but like I'm not running a photography business, and social media compresses them to shit anyway so the quality is perfectly fine.

[beacon294]

LLMs are set to.increase hardware demands a lot. Although I don't necessarily think this is related to the program change.

I know this comment is deep in a thread, but to me it looks like they simply prefer to own the whole apple device payment cycle and not use partners.

BNPL has been a huge bubble outside the traditional credit bubble, this is the same. It doesn't seem like a big divergence excepting that it gives them a contact point and a stick with which to prod customer into a new phone sooner.

[macintux]

For me, the primary value of my phone is the camera, and the telephoto on the iPhone Pro Max models has gotten significantly better in the 2.5 years since mine was released.

Were it not for the camera, I could have stopped upgrading 10 years ago.

My point is, not everyone values the same things you do. The new Siri AI only runs on 15 Pro and higher, I think. New features do arrive in newer phones.

[Barbing]

iPhone 17 Pro is binoculars and also eliminated 16 Pro battery anxiety.

Value in being part of the discussion for a whole year every year too. You realllly have to care about stuff like these factors though (or hate investing your money or have too much).

[SV_BubbleTime]

This is exactly where I’m at. Want a higher zoom. I’m about three years old now and feeling it.

[sneak]

> I get that people who are going to upgrade to the latest flagship phone every 18-24 months will probably do better with this, but realistically... those people are fucking insanely financially irresponsible

This is not remotely true. I buy each and every flagship iPhone every year on or near release day for cash. I have done so every release since the first iPhone came out.

Each September or October my old phone goes into a desk drawer forever, or is wiped and gifted to a partner or close friend. I do not recover any of the costs at the end of the 12 months.

In total, it is way less than $200 per month. That’s not “fucking insanely financially irresponsible” by any stretch of the imagination. $2k per year is a trivial amount of money for the most-often-used computer in my entire life. It pays for itself in the first few weeks of the year.

Separately, I spend another 10-20k per year on computer software and services, because it assists my business in making many times that in revenue. Hell, even my hobby AWS S3 account is like $35/mo and that’s like the same as the lease payment for the flagship iPhone Pro under this program.

Upgrading each year brings real performance benefits, despite your claim that phones don’t materially improve each generation. Whether or not that is worth replacing it before it breaks or not is a separate conversation, but let’s not pretend that upgrading annually is exactly equivalent to lighting $2k on fire. Anyone who participates regularly in US “bar culture”, for example, is spending more each month on drinks than I spend to carry the latest flagship iPhone, and nobody is claiming that eating out three times a month or going to the bar with your buddies every Friday night is “fucking insanely financially irresponsible”. Tech is so cheap now that it’s a trivial amount of money in the grand scheme of things.

(You’ll probably flip when you hear I replace my $7k work laptop every 12-24 months, too.)

Furthermore, I’m not even an extreme outlier. I know people who regularly buy the flagship iPhone for their entire family, in cash, every year. It’s a bit spendy if you’re not using it for business (but who isn’t, in 2026, where every single thing you do is an app) but it’s still simply not that much money in real terms when you consider it’s well under $2k/year/device. Hell, a nice lunch for two people at a decent restaurant even without alcohol is pushing $100 in most cities.

[SV_BubbleTime]

Mine is about three years old now and I want a better camera.

[closetohome]

This math is what lead me to the iUp program in the first place. It's effectively a guaranteed 50% trade-in, which came out to about $200-300 in actual money that I was theoretically sacrificing in exchange for not having to worry about the cosmetic condition of the phone or weirdos on ebay.

And it came with AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss. I stopped using a case. I lived free.

[macintux]

I’ll never stop using a case. Too clumsy, too careless. 2-3 days without my phone would be manageable but why?

[olyjohn]

My screen is cracked, and I still prefer it over a case. Just a personal preference, I think.

[Onawa]

Phones these days are so slippery without a case though... Is it just me? Feels like trying to hold on to a wet bar of soap sans case.

[GolfPopper]

I'm a little confused on why anyone would pay this much for a phone. (Although if you consider it conspicuous consumption that happens to work as a phone, I can believe that.)

[blackqueeriroh]

I’m certain there are things you pay for that I would look at and go “I’m a little confused on why anyone would pay this much for x. (Although if you consider it conspicuous consumption that happens to work as x, I can believe that.)”

But I wouldn’t, because I actually understand that people are different and like it that way.

Consider: your opinion is worthless when it comes to what I care about in terms of luxuries I enjoy, just as mine is worthless when it comes to what you care about in terms of luxuries you enjoy.

It’s way better when you don’t run around judging other people for liking different things than you.

[sneak]

I’ve always been told when computer shopping to “buy the fastest cpu and the most ram you can afford”. This goes doubly for revenue-generating devices.

My iPhone is the computer I use most every day, by a WIDE margin.

[al_borland]

I’m not sure this is the best advice anymore. So many people’s needs don’t demand much of a computer.

My last personal computer purchase was an M1 Pro MBP 4 years ago. I could have maxed it out and my life would be the same, but instead I bought on the low end… or somewhere in the middle if we look at Apple’s lineup as a whole.

It’s now 4 years later. This is the longest I’ve probably ever kept a laptop. It’s still running fine, I’m not hurting for more power, and will like wait another 1-3 years before an upgrade… maybe more, we’ll see.

The laptop is a glorified Chromebook for me. I do edit some photos from time to time, encode some video, and code a bit. But 95% of the time, I’m just looking at webpages. Maxing the thing out would have been a massive waste of money.

My work laptop is also a MBP of a similar generation. It’s not up to me when it’s upgraded, but it also wasn’t maxed out, and it’s still fine. VS Code and Outlook aren’t going to run fast enough to matter with a M5 Mac and 128GB or RAM. The bottleneck isn’t my laptop, it’s bureaucracy.

For some, having top end specs will matter, but that is a shrinking percentage of the overall market.

[lovich]

That’s tame when people are leasing literal meals with klarna

[Barbing]

Also leasing whatever Subway sells https://sezzle.com/shop/subway

[slater]

money number must go up?