China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks, but I guess chinese researchers won't make it to the US and this already will have a great effect on the chinese economy.
Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing).
Europe's problems:
* active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)
* energy supply issues (unlike US it's not energy sufficient and the places that supply it with energy are involved with wars)
* a wall of people aging away from employment and into doctor's and hospital waiting rooms (forcing less investment into research and roads/bridges/railway, more towards stabilizing pensions, healthcare)
* major pieces of the european export economy are being replaced by China (eg chinese car brands eating the lunch of european car brands).
Europe is not immigration friendly as well if you don't speak the native language, of course one could live in an English speaking bubble, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be in Academia.
It's extremely feasible. English is the defacto language of most research in the EU. I spent some time in Italy during my masters degree and know lots of people who have gone on to research or university instructor jobs in various countries in the EU. You definitely have to learn at least some of the local language for day-to-day life though.
Likely not a problem, especially in Academia. A family member is doing a Phd in Poland, everyone is English speaking and they have lots of students from all over the world. Could be worse in places like France, where English proficiency is historically lower, but I doubt it would be a factor in higher education.
Politically speaking, the top polling party in Germany refuses to have a discussion about neo-nazis in its ranks, and boasts that "we are growing stronger and larger all the time":
Similar things are going on in the UK (Reform/Restore) and France, where most projections have the National Rally candidate winning the next presidential election:
Anti-immigrant sentiments are surging all around the world: Canada, Australia, Japan, etc. Switzerland nearly passed an immigration freeze far more draconian than anything Trump ever proposed.
> immigration freeze far more draconian than anything Trump ever proposed
as a swiss i am very happy that we didn't vote this through, but you're still being very hyperbolic. they wanted to put a cap on the population, which is bonkers, don't get me wrong.
however, no jail-like deportation centers, gestapo-like policeforce searching for immigrants and unlawfully putting them into trucks and many more things trump did and wants to do which my mind tries to forget.
there is an issue with people hating immigrants in our country, but please don't suggest that we're on US/Trump level, which to me seems more like what the germans started to do in the beginning* of you know what and who.
*comparing it to the beginning on purpose. not yet on total annihilation mode, but seeing as there's reports of hundreds of people going missing from Alligator Alcatraz, and minding the people who have been shot/killed, y'all are doing a good job of repeating history.
There's a difference between hamfisted/uneven attempts to enforce immigration law which is already on the books, and proposing a total freeze on legal immigration. Trump never did the latter. The US came closer to a total freeze in the 1920s.
The keywords in the headline are "Nobel laureate". They are superstars in academia and are getting money, resources and convenience that a tenured US professor cannot dream of. These are extremely rare compared to the number of Chinese professors in US universities.
> Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors.
Language wise, absolutely. Racism-wise, I think you underestimate how wildly racist the US is. As a European, I am still quite shocked. Everything in that country is viewed through the lens of skin color.
I think the main difference between Europe and the US is that European progressives tend to have a lot of national vanity and believe that their country doesn't have racism, regardless of the evidence. US progressives tend to have national self-hatred (the US is one of the world's most self-hating countries, according to polls) and work really hard to find racism everywhere.
I see the rise of the far right as fundamentally different in Europe and the US. In Europe it's driven by migrants who don't integrate well. In the US, immigrants typically integrate well, and the far right is fundamentally a reaction to our crazy far left: https://www.imightbewrong.org/p/how-crazy-is-darializa-avila... The US far right is worried about immigrants because they believe immigrants will vote for far left candidates, even though the data doesn't exactly support that position.
I am a European. I don't even remember when was the last time I had a conversation about race with someone who isn't American. And with Americans, it was mostly about how I supposedly owe something to other people because my skin is white.
> No dual citizenship at all, most probably no citizenship.
Citizenship is basically impossible unless you are born to Chinese parents, but work visas in China are lightyears easier to get than the US H1B shitshow. In China all you need is an employer's invitation and you can more or less get a work visa, especially if it's for a skilled job in science, technology, or finance.
> Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism
I'm non-white and I've felt far more racism in the US than China. That isn't to say racism doesn't exist, but it's much less.
> OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors.
Language is not a barrier unless you think it is. The IQ of people in China isn't particularly different than the IQ of people anywhere else in the world. If 1 billion people can learn a language, you can.
I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it?
Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors. You're allowed to take your family along with you too, and the language barrier doesn't translate in the professional setting. Racism is a non-issue since I doubt these researchers will even be interacting with elements of that segment of Chinese Han society, unless they choose to.
Technically yes, but the ways US and China treat foreigners are at two extremes.
As long as you are invited and keep your mouth shut about ccp, China does not care about papers. One famous example is an athlete, when questioned about nationality after winning an Olympic gold medal for China, publicly claimed that I am Chinese when I am in China, and American when I am in the US.
>I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it?
Because it's an important matter regarding immigration. If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining?
>Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors.
None of which is related to immigration.
>You're allowed to take your family along with you too, and the language barrier doesn't translate in the professional setting.
>Racism is a non-issue since I doubt these researchers will even be interacting with elements of that segment of Chinese Han society, unless they choose to.
Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?
This just reads like deeply, deeply delusional reasoning attempting to paint China as a good alternative.
Citizenship is quite politicized in the US, but in Asia (and probably most of the world) most immigrants will never obtain citizenship. There are many reasons for this I can get into if you want, but it's a tangent. All this generally entails, as opposed to permanent residency, is that your children won't be citizens by default, you can't vote, and that you need to occasionally notify immigration of where you live. On the other issue - yeah you can 100% not interact with locals if you choose.
Any position that's hiring foreigners is going to have multiple foreigners. And it creates a scenario where, by default, foreigners will hang out with foreigners and locals will hang out with locals. The same is true outside of work as there tend to be large expat communities everywhere and even schools/communities almost entirely for expats.
Immigrants (especially in Asia) are never going to blend in with the local population naturally. The cultures are so far removed that you'll never 'fit in.' That doesn't mean you can't make local friends and acquaintances, but that you can choose not to. And yeah I'd highly recommend almost anywhere in Asia to people, including China. It's an amazing place to raise children - ironic given Asia's at the forefront of the global fertility crisis.
It's nothing what like you probably imagine if you've never been. You can find about a zillion videos of people vlogging about their life in Asia. Here [1] is some random video from an American in China. Granted, he speaks crazy good Chinese so it's a different perspective than the one I'm talking about, but he can hit on more issues re:China. I've visited China, but never lived there. He's been there 16 years.
I don't think OP is doing this, just stating the obvious. The invitation implies $$$ but not naturalization.
> If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining?
Yeah might, so it is big question depending on the situation, and even bigger once you got more passports or permanent residence. For example people intentionally avoid US permanent residence or citizenship for global taxation.
> Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?
All the time, especially the US expats in China. They tend to live in nice communities for foreigners in a few tier-1 cities, they go to western style international hospitals and their kids goes to fancy international schools. Basically employers have everything prepared nicely for them, hence the contrast of China between foreigners and citizens.
In terms of racism in China or east Asia as a whole, there is practically no problem for white ppl, small problem for indians, big problem for blacks.
In the reverse direction in the US there are Chinese/Latino spending their lives in their own ethnic community without speaking English at all, it is not that uncommon, just invisible.
Replies like these reek of Western exceptionalism or the misfortune of not having travelled much.
Yes, there are certain countries where one can pretty much work in without the need to obtain citizenship. I wouldn't want to be a citizen of Qatar/the UAE (world's most powerful passports) or a citizen of China, simply because obtaining them subjects you to a whole can of worms of absolutist laws.
And yes, people can easily live in a country without interacting with the locals at all. Just ask the Americans and Europeans in the Gulf or Singapore, who barely interact with any locals outside of their workplace. Or ask expats in India and Indonesia who barely interact with locals except in the context of some menial chores.
Have you ever lived overseas? Honestly you sound delusional. Do you think the USA makes it easy to become a citizen? Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Acting like the bar for living somewhere is citizenship is nuts.
> Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?
This pretty much confirms you have never lived overseas lol. Anyone who has will have met many people that achieve this. Like living anywhere immersing yourself in your surroundings (w/e that means to you) takes extra effort. Most people go overseas to work. It's not playtime. With that comes a built in community.
> None of which is related to immigration
How is getting money and support to live in a place not related to immigration?
Why are you so reactive about something you clearly know nothing about? Because China bad?
> China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks
What do you mean? I've never been to China, but know quite a few non-han white Europeans who lived there for both shorter and longer periods of time. Some studied, others worked there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China has a good summary (click through to its sources); as of 2020 there were about 1.5 million immigrants in China, just under 600K of which from Hong Kong/Macao/Taiwan; as of 2023 there's 12.000 people with permanent residency cards, which would be the expats that live and work there without nationalizing.
The relative population size of those countries likely plays a role there. Split China into 4 countries, each with a population about equal to that of the USA, and I bet that number for China goes up significantly. Split it into 75 countries each the size of the Netherlands, and it would go up even further (some people moving home within Beijing would emigrate)
100% becoming more closed. I have been trying to live in China for over 15 years… I finally managed the last 3 years, but its an forever struggle/gamble each year and each year the requirements get tougher (to get a work/residence permit). But yeah.. same goes for Europe
No, total immigration matters. Human progress is always subject to the law large numbers.
Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another.
China is the opposite of that. You are hard hammered into the Han-ness, immediately. The language, the writing (which is a HUGE hurdle), the food, the way of life.
For what it's worth, this is the terminology I learned in school decades ago, but I don't think it's preferred anymore. My daughter has a book that calls it a "salad" instead (mixed but retaining their respective properties). I'm probably just old and crotchety but I like that way less.
>No, total immigration matters. Human progress is always subject to the law large numbers.
Human change can be subject to the law of large numbers, but nothing necessitates any particular change being towards progress.
>Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another.
The American melting pot works well (or worked well) because it was a nation made up from a blank canvas with no prior historically established dominant ethnicity or culture the kind other nations have had going for millenia.
And even at that was built on first disenfranchizing (to put it midly) the natives.
Likewise you haven't disproven my thesis that China is not closed to immigrants.
A good friend of mine (white European) was approached by a Chinese company and now works in China. I'll ask him how hard the paperwork was the next time I meet him, but I have a feeling his employer did the bulk of it.
I've never been to China either. It's a huge country and it probably depends on where you are (hong kong probably friendlier than a random place in the mainland), but from what I heard/read:
* language issues. Many chinese don't speak english. Also a problem in many european countries (esp latin and slavic speaking ones), but at least the european languages are easier to learn. Compare this to Amsterdam, Goteborg, Berlin-Mitte or Kopenhagen where everyone speaks english.
* citizenship is one of the hardest to get in the world.
* I heard complaints about onboarding into the chinese app/digital ID ecosystem.
On HK you can get permanent residence after I believe 5 years of working in there. That said… you will need a HIGH paying job to be able to achieve that. China mainland has a similar thing (‘green card’) but the requirements are kinda unobtainable for anyone below CEO of Starbucks level
Tangent, but I’m really curious what country you’re from that uses the endonym for Göteborg but then also spells the capital of Denmark like Kopenhagen?
I'm born and raised German, and above I mostly used the German ways of writing the town names (stripping the umlaut). Which as it turns out are not the same way you'd write it in english, interesting!
I'm pretty certain all languages do that. It's fairly common to bastardize/assimilate the names of important cities and/or trade hubs into the local language, but leave smaller names unchanged. That's why it's Milano/Milan, Venezia/Venice but Cagliari doesn't have an americanized name; that's why it's Moskva/Moscow but still Irkutsk; Warszawa/Warsaw, Gdansk/Danzig (in German), Katowice/Kattowitz (in German), etc.
Though it was years ago now, I did spend a couple of years frequently traveling to China for fairly long stays. I learned enough Mandarin to get by on my own. The "scariest" thing is realizing you might have to walk for an hour in a random direction to come across a landmark like a known metro station or a hotel where you can get a taxi and have the concierge translate your desired destination.
I was mostly in first tier cities, though I did travel through some more obscure places. The worst hostility I experienced was 5 foot tall grandma with sharp elbows determined to cut in line in front of the big stupid foreigner who is passive aggressively placing his wheelie bag in her way.
If you're curious, just go. The cities are amazing, the people are friendly. Even in Beijing you can easily avoid the tourist traps. While it's not as perfectly safe as Japan or Taiwan, I spent a lot of jet lag recovery time wandering the streets late at night. Once I spent half an hour in a taxi garage at 2am at some unknown location after a 45 minute misdirected taxi ride, arranging a ride to my intended hotel. I think that's about as lost as one can get and it was fine.
I think the concern is more along the lines of social integration than criminal hostility. Japan for instance has basically zero crime, and tons of tourists, but is notoriously impossible to ever become "Japanese" as an outsider.
I have to wonder who aspires to become Japanese or Chinese, or even the superficially plausible goal of me becoming German. It just wouldn't enter my mind.
As for social integration, the Chinese people I met seemed astonished and pleased that I could make any headway with the language or the food.
Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2]
Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there.
You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered.
It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is when you are living in an apartment and the condominium council refuses AC installation for esthetical reasons, but it's something that can change (either by the vote of co-owners, or by law if needed). And if you are renting, you are stuck until the legislation changes and forces owners to provide summer comfort the same way they must provide heating in winter.
Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.
That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.
My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort.
Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.
I just moved to Portugal and had zero issues installing a portable unit to help me survive the heatwave. For the hinged windows you just grab an installation kit that works with them and you're good to go. The only problem is that the portable AC I got is not a window unit (& it's single-hose), but I wanted to have it before the heatwave started and don't care too much about few percentage points in lost efficiency as long as it keeps me and my pets alive. Total cost was €320 with the installation kit for a 12000BTU unit.
I'm actually surprised you were fine with single-hose. I've never seen a single-hose portable A/C unit that did an adequate job. AIUC, the laws of physics make that rather difficult. In fact I've sometimes seen them actively make things worse. Whereas I have seen dual-hose do an adequate job.
Also note, "survive" is a rather low bar. We're talking about encouraging some of the world's top researchers to move from the US across the ocean. I'm admittedly not in their shoes, but I imagine mere survival isn't their criterion.
Can sliding windows be properly insulated? In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.
German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though?
I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows and a movable AC. My apartment has old school 4-pane windows with 2 layers both having their own window handles, so 8 independent small windows for each opening. They do look great in an old building but I don't see any reasonable way to set up AC with these. Thankfully no need yet as the apartment has never reached 30C inside, but we'll see what the future brings.
Yes. Beyond that, if they didn't work they wouldn't be used. Continental climates get much colder than pretty much anywhere in Europe, outside of a select few areas.
> In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.
Masonry is a bad match for cold. The structure acts as a high velocity heat conduit and the earth eats all the heat you produce. Europe's winters (in general) are extremely mild, arguably even more so than its summers.
You can just buy plastic that you attach to the frame around the window with a hole for the hose. Its reasonable air tight, but we typically get air from outside for ventilation anyway.
My house in the US has windows like that. I have a cut and painted board to replace the window with in the summer because of it. I hate these windows because of that though.
The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here.
Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the largest contributors no less). But if you move here and care about it just pick a place that has it or where you can install it. It's available if you want it.
It's not a big thing that should be influencing any decision to move. It's just being blown up and politicised because of the current heatwave. Aircon is not prohibited nor frowned upon here, it's just that we didn't really need it so much before and people are still reluctant to invest in it. Especially in the more northern countries it's not really needed anyway, during a heatwave yes but that's a couple weeks a year. Also, it's not a complete solution. Most of us here live outdoor much more, we don't drive cars much so we need to deal with the heat outside anyway.
We also have nice community options like climate shelters here.
> The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point.
No, it isn't. It's appalling, that a Philippino riverside shack that's on the verge of falling apart has functioning A/C while a high end home in pick-a-European-country does not. It's a cultural thing. Even now during a brutal heatwave, when I mention to friends in Europe, that things would be better if they had aircon at home, they start talking about planting trees and other "measures". Sometimes I wonder if they know how long does it take for a tree to grow.
> The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point.
I think the truth is somewhere inbetween the extremes. My understanding is that while air conditioning is not legally banned in Europe, its usage and installation are heavily restricted. Strict building codes, energy-saving laws, and local aesthetic regulations in historic districts often make acquiring or running an AC unit highly complicated.
It's an old bit of banter that the world over has thrown at certain European countries (including other European countries). Giving American republicans custody of it because of an explosive penetration into the mainstream in the last few weeks is ridiculous.
I would highly recommend not legitimizing the American political system so readily.
...what are you talking about? This was from my personal experience being in Europe many times, including in the middle of this very last heat wave. This one thing made it miserable. I couldn't even sleep and had to move to other buildings more than once. On more than one occasion locals themselves told me there were legal reasons certain buildings couldn't have A/C, despite them wanting to install it. And it from people there that I heard - several times - about the deaths when I complained about the lack of A/C, not from right-wing US media! I had no idea Republicans were even talking about this until your comment!
I'm not even blaming Europe for having so little A/C - more power to them for being able to handle the heat with less impact on climate change; they have my approval! I'm just saying if you're expecting Americans to immigrate there, this seems like a very real obstacle. That's all.
Maybe monumental buildings might have some regulatory concern but where I live it's not an issue. My neighbours in the same flat have 2 big condensers (the outside box of a split AC box) on their balcony. I just don't want to invest in it myself so I have only one of those stupid porta units, not great but it does the job when I need to cool down a bit. And our building is monumental from the 1800s. Also, every single hotel and commercial place has it.
But really in the netherlands which this article is about it should not be a barrier. The weather there in summer is extremely variable. Yes you get some hot days but they are few. And like I said, if you really want AC you are free to pick a place that has it. If you're a skilled migrant you will be well compensated anyway. You will have your pick. Viewing that as a barrier is just blowing things out of proportion.
The same way that American media is these days talking about Europe like it's overrun with migrants, it's just political.
> Maybe monumental buildings might have some regulatory concern
No it was not "monumental buildings". These were very average buildings I'm talking about. In fact I saw two related buildings, only one of which was permitted to have A/C (and an awful portable one at that), as the locals told me. Everyone complained about it.
Be glad where you live isn't like this, but this is not universal.
> Also, every single hotel and commercial place has it.
I can't speak for your city or the Netherlands but this is absolutely not even remotely true universally in Europe. Most places I found (yes that includes nice hotels, yes in multiple countries) lacked A/C, and even the ones that had something they called "air conditioning" on the booking websites vehemently rejected the notion that they have A/C when you asked them in person -- in their own eyes it wasn't proper A/C, and I agreed with them after trying it.
Republicans aren't talking about it, people are making fun of Europe on X for their lack of AC, and how regulations are whats keeping them from having AC. This is coming from right wing Europeans. I think the parent is tilting at windmills.
That's literally what I heard from locals. I have no idea what 'wing' they were; they were just random locals I was asking about A/C. What I do know is everything I observed was consistent. Are you saying I should discredit all that based on an HN comment smearing them as "right-wing"?
It's coming from all over. It always has. It was understandably never so visible for people who don't hang out in casual international spaces, but it's not new and it's not owned by anyone. The reason it's so compelling isn't actually the lack of AC, it's because it's an easy button to push that gets people living in certain countries very defensive over something rather trivial.
I mean the lack of AC is definitely weird for a developed country, and the deflections about mild climate certainly aren't a posteriori, but it's the defensiveness and cope that makes it a button worth pushing in the first place.
Well I am very anti-right-wing yes but I saw one of the top dogs in the US administration complain about this recently, I think it was Vance or Hegseth.
That's pretty regional, countries that historically had warmer summers have them available on basically every house.
Where the heatwave is only recent, there are some bureaucratic issues (like historic buildings should not get "defaced" by the external unit and whatnot), but I think this is way too exaggerated when talking about the whole of the EU.
You forgot, amomg others, increasingly non-white popation due to laughable immigration policies; absurd environmental policies that result in high energy prices; red tape and high taxes in every aspect of life.
> Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing).
Both Japan and South Korea were equally devastated and yet they managed to build world-class technology industries in the subsequent decades. I think the problems with Europe and the EU are a lot deeper than that.
A lot deeper than active wars and energy supply issues???
Europe's economy has been slowing down since 2007, which is the peak of conventional oil. The problem of Europe is that is doesn't have access to abundant energy like the US does. The US likes to think that they have a better economy because they are smarter/work harder, but the reality is simple: abundant energy makes the economy.
If you measure economical performance with PIB per capita, yeah, for sure, US has a better economy.
If you measure with anything else useful like (healthy) life expectancy or happiness level, state of the democracy, etc... like if you think the the economy must serve the people and not the other way, I'd say Europe is way more successful despite the real issues.
Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. Norway and Iceland also have abundant energy and their people are seeing the benefits.
>Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy.
You feel that way because the media (and the internet) is hyper focused on the bottom 50% of Americans. The households with 2 people earning <$40k per year each.
If you look at the higher brackets (you have to look because "Americans in the 75th percentile live great" is not a clickable story) America is a better place to live if you work a job that pays well.
The plots for "comfortable living vs income" in the US and Europe are different, and that difference is endlessly arbitraged and any boring news day to pump out another "Life in Europe is better" story.
Sorry but I don't share your view. A society where the bottom 50% can't live a decent life is just dysfunctional. I don't care which country is best for the riches (and actually, Europe is good for the riches), I care that the economy is there to allow everyone to live a decent and meaningful life.
>You feel that way because the media (and the internet) is hyper focused on the bottom 50% of Americans. The households with 2 people earning <$40k per year each.
Poverty in the US is similar to poverty in Sweden, according to this dataset:
I think there is just a lot of misinformation out there. Americans love to complain, and other countries love to criticize the US. These effects create systematic misconceptions which no one bothers to fact-check.
> I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. Norway and Iceland also have abundant energy and their people are seeing the benefits.
It's just a totally different scale of comparison that does not work - those Nordic countries are smaller than many counties in US states. It's like comparing Iceland to Santa Barbara, etc.
>Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. Norway and Iceland also have abundant energy and their people are seeing the benefits.
Norway produces oil at Saudi Arabia levels per capita:
Since 2007, the European economy is in contraction if you look at physical indicators like "how much stuff do trucks move" or "what area is being built". That correlates directly with the peak of conventional oil and the fact that oil has been harder to get in Europe since 2007.
>The US likes to think that they have a better economy because they are smarter/work harder, but the reality is simple: abundant energy makes the economy.
The most valuable American companies are not exactly in energy-intensive industries:
Everything depends on energy. Driving a car is a lot cheaper in the US because of abundant energy. That has an impact on the economy (the economy is pretty much trucks moving stuff around).
The world runs on Siemens, Bosch, Rolls Royce, Bayer. Even adversarial countries buy German Marine Diesels for their warships. Europe makes better warships than the US, who has spent the last 40 years twiddling it's thumbs and can no longer make modern frigates apparently, and prefers to spend it's naval efforts on the Tsar's moronic toy boat.
Unilever makes up half of the non-food items in your grocery store. Nestle makes up half the food items.
Novartis played a huge part in the Covid vaccines and also is just a giant medicine company in general. Novo Nordisk should be familiar to you.
ThyssenKrupp. It's twice the size of US Steel, which recently had to be sold to a US subsidiary of Nippon Steel because they sucked ass at keeping up with the times.
Britain makes better gas turbines than China and Russia for example. Europe reliably produces top tier weapons systems and infrastructure, competitive with American, often surpassing American systems currently. Thales, BAE, Airbus, Saab, Rheinmetal. The US Abrams tank uses a clone of a German gun. The Bradley is a BAE design. The US has always loved using European produced and designed large guns, such as from Oerlikon or Bofors, because they are always world class. Most of their military industry is.
Michelin tyres is a french company.
A lot of these names survived WW2. Thinking Europe doesn't know how to build big stuff, important stuff, etc, they seem to do a better job than the US at maintaining essential industry talent and continuation of industry. By value and jobs, the automotive industry facing competition will struggle, but Europe survived the rise of Japanese automakers far far better than US automakers did, primarily because they didn't just sit back and twiddle their thumbs for decades as the rest of the world advanced. Well, okay, Britain automakers struggled, but that's a good thing.
For a lot of people it's easier to learn English than Chinese - you wouldn't get far if you don't speak the language in China. English gets you very far in Europe though, most research institutions, universities, high end professions, etc already have English as the going language because of the international character of these places.
I think you're missing my point. China does not need to or aim to attract any researcher from anywhere. Just attracting top tier ethnic Chinese researchers and technical talent from the US is already a big unequivocal win for them. That talent pool is big: any US Math/Physics Olympiad team of the past 10-20 years is >2/3rds ethnically Chinese. And for them, Europe is not necessarily a more attractive destination than China.
Chinese are far more open to working in foreign environments/contexts that Americans are, IMO. Just look at the foreign language learning statistics: most Americans tend to only know English, unless their family was fairly recently from a non-English speaking country. Meanwhile the Chinese landing in the US tend to already have decent English education, and dive right into doing what they're there to do.
There are any number of smaller region/states that are already benefiting. Singapore comes to mind. Leading labs are all setting up in Singapore and both 1) internally-transferring their previously US-based talents on work visa to Singapore, and 2) using Singapore as a base for Asia hires, mostly notably from China.
Either they underestimate, which is ignorance, or they estimate properly and are anti-truth.
What use do propagandists and fascists have for research? It only stands to continually disprove their lies. They obviously hate science and truth and want it gone, to be replaced with cult of personality and Christian nationalism.
Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing).
Europe's problems:
* active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)
* energy supply issues (unlike US it's not energy sufficient and the places that supply it with energy are involved with wars)
* a wall of people aging away from employment and into doctor's and hospital waiting rooms (forcing less investment into research and roads/bridges/railway, more towards stabilizing pensions, healthcare)
* major pieces of the european export economy are being replaced by China (eg chinese car brands eating the lunch of european car brands).