[dataflow]

> Europe's problems: [...]

Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2]

[1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave...

[2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

[pjerem]

Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there.

You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered.

It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is when you are living in an apartment and the condominium council refuses AC installation for esthetical reasons, but it's something that can change (either by the vote of co-owners, or by law if needed). And if you are renting, you are stuck until the legislation changes and forces owners to provide summer comfort the same way they must provide heating in winter.

[weberer]

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe

Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.

[pjerem]

That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.

My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort.

Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.

[BeetleB]

> You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.

And his point is that in most apartments in the US, you are not blocked because you're a renter.

[mrguyorama]

>you are not blocked because you're a renter.

You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want.

My previous US apartment banned window mount air conditioners. I was stuck with a "mobile" AC unit that could barely handle a little humidity. Even someone in a "Historic" property in Europe that isn't allowed to touch anything would have that option as well.

[BeetleB]

> You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want.

In my state, they cannot. I legally have the right to install a window AC unit as long as I'm not doing any damage or violating a safety guideline.

[bialpio]

I just moved to Portugal and had zero issues installing a portable unit to help me survive the heatwave. For the hinged windows you just grab an installation kit that works with them and you're good to go. The only problem is that the portable AC I got is not a window unit (& it's single-hose), but I wanted to have it before the heatwave started and don't care too much about few percentage points in lost efficiency as long as it keeps me and my pets alive. Total cost was €320 with the installation kit for a 12000BTU unit.

[dataflow]

I'm actually surprised you were fine with single-hose. I've never seen a single-hose portable A/C unit that did an adequate job. AIUC, the laws of physics make that rather difficult. In fact I've sometimes seen them actively make things worse. Whereas I have seen dual-hose do an adequate job.

Also note, "survive" is a rather low bar. We're talking about encouraging some of the world's top researchers to move from the US across the ocean. I'm admittedly not in their shoes, but I imagine mere survival isn't their criterion.

[bialpio]

I had single-hose both when I lived in USA and now, and didn't have any issues with it cooling down the room I wanted to have cooled down. My bar is "survival of my pets" because rabbits supposedly can't handle more than 25C. Their room stayed well below that temperature both in USA (Seattle suburbs, west-facing in a house that wasn't insulated) and now in Portugal.

[AngryData]

Ive seen a few single hose AC units that worked okay. I still don't understand why they exist though. The window installment at its minimum span is still putting the ends quite far apart and would increase efficiency.

[bialpio]

Unfortunately, I could not find a dual-hose unit off-the-shelf in any of the local stores and didn't have any hopes of getting it in time if I ordered it online.

[distances]

Can sliding windows be properly insulated? In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.

German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though?

I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows and a movable AC. My apartment has old school 4-pane windows with 2 layers both having their own window handles, so 8 independent small windows for each opening. They do look great in an old building but I don't see any reasonable way to set up AC with these. Thankfully no need yet as the apartment has never reached 30C inside, but we'll see what the future brings.

[ux266478]

> Can sliding windows be properly insulated?

Yes. Beyond that, if they didn't work they wouldn't be used. Continental climates get much colder than pretty much anywhere in Europe, outside of a select few areas.

> In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.

Masonry is a bad match for cold. The structure acts as a high velocity heat conduit and the earth eats all the heat you produce. Europe's winters (in general) are extremely mild, arguably even more so than its summers.

[distances]

> Yes. Beyond that, if they didn't work they wouldn't be used.

My usual experience from London was extremely leaky single pane sliding windows, that's why the question. To be fair, that air flow was probably the only saving grace against mold in those buildings.

[WarmWash]

The old sliding windows were shit, but the modern ones are pretty good.

[Hikikomori]

You can just buy plastic that you attach to the frame around the window with a hole for the hose. Its reasonable air tight, but we typically get air from outside for ventilation anyway.

[AngryData]

My house in the US has windows like that. I have a cut and painted board to replace the window with in the summer because of it. I hate these windows because of that though.

[ginko]

Sliding windows are terrible though. Why would you want those?

[weberer]

No they're not. They're actually the best window form factor. Why would you not want them.

[ginko]

You can't clean them without leaning dangerously outside for one.

[weberer]

Modern ones allow you to tilt them in for cleaning. This video demonstrates it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyM7hI5vE2A

[wolvoleo]

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here.

Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the largest contributors no less). But if you move here and care about it just pick a place that has it or where you can install it. It's available if you want it.

It's not a big thing that should be influencing any decision to move. It's just being blown up and politicised because of the current heatwave. Aircon is not prohibited nor frowned upon here, it's just that we didn't really need it so much before and people are still reluctant to invest in it. Especially in the more northern countries it's not really needed anyway, during a heatwave yes but that's a couple weeks a year. Also, it's not a complete solution. Most of us here live outdoor much more, we don't drive cars much so we need to deal with the heat outside anyway.

We also have nice community options like climate shelters here.

[neonstatic]

> The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point.

No, it isn't. It's appalling, that a Philippino riverside shack that's on the verge of falling apart has functioning A/C while a high end home in pick-a-European-country does not. It's a cultural thing. Even now during a brutal heatwave, when I mention to friends in Europe, that things would be better if they had aircon at home, they start talking about planting trees and other "measures". Sometimes I wonder if they know how long does it take for a tree to grow.

[andsoitis]

> The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point.

I think the truth is somewhere inbetween the extremes. My understanding is that while air conditioning is not legally banned in Europe, its usage and installation are heavily restricted. Strict building codes, energy-saving laws, and local aesthetic regulations in historic districts often make acquiring or running an AC unit highly complicated.

So the talking point is about red tape.

[ux266478]

> is just a stupid republican talking point

> As everything that comes out of republicans

It's an old bit of banter that the world over has thrown at certain European countries (including other European countries). Giving American republicans custody of it because of an explosive penetration into the mainstream in the last few weeks is ridiculous.

I would highly recommend not legitimizing the American political system so readily.

[0xDEAFBEAD]

>purely politically motivated

I'm certain you yourself are completely free of political motivations ;-)

[dataflow]

...what are you talking about? This was from my personal experience being in Europe many times, including in the middle of this very last heat wave. This one thing made it miserable. I couldn't even sleep and had to move to other buildings more than once. On more than one occasion locals themselves told me there were legal reasons certain buildings couldn't have A/C, despite them wanting to install it. And it from people there that I heard - several times - about the deaths when I complained about the lack of A/C, not from right-wing US media! I had no idea Republicans were even talking about this until your comment!

I'm not even blaming Europe for having so little A/C - more power to them for being able to handle the heat with less impact on climate change; they have my approval! I'm just saying if you're expecting Americans to immigrate there, this seems like a very real obstacle. That's all.

[wolvoleo]

Maybe monumental buildings might have some regulatory concern but where I live it's not an issue. My neighbours in the same flat have 2 big condensers (the outside box of a split AC box) on their balcony. I just don't want to invest in it myself so I have only one of those stupid porta units, not great but it does the job when I need to cool down a bit. And our building is monumental from the 1800s. Also, every single hotel and commercial place has it.

But really in the netherlands which this article is about it should not be a barrier. The weather there in summer is extremely variable. Yes you get some hot days but they are few. And like I said, if you really want AC you are free to pick a place that has it. If you're a skilled migrant you will be well compensated anyway. You will have your pick. Viewing that as a barrier is just blowing things out of proportion.

The same way that American media is these days talking about Europe like it's overrun with migrants, it's just political.

[dataflow]

> Maybe monumental buildings might have some regulatory concern

No it was not "monumental buildings". These were very average buildings I'm talking about. In fact I saw two related buildings, only one of which was permitted to have A/C (and an awful portable one at that), as the locals told me. Everyone complained about it.

Be glad where you live isn't like this, but this is not universal.

> Also, every single hotel and commercial place has it.

I can't speak for your city or the Netherlands but this is absolutely not even remotely true universally in Europe. Most places I found (yes that includes nice hotels, yes in multiple countries) lacked A/C, and even the ones that had something they called "air conditioning" on the booking websites vehemently rejected the notion that they have A/C when you asked them in person -- in their own eyes it wasn't proper A/C, and I agreed with them after trying it.

Source: my own eyes, up to last week.

[ecshafer]

Republicans aren't talking about it, people are making fun of Europe on X for their lack of AC, and how regulations are whats keeping them from having AC. This is coming from right wing Europeans. I think the parent is tilting at windmills.

[dataflow]

That's literally what I heard from locals. I have no idea what 'wing' they were; they were just random locals I was asking about A/C. What I do know is everything I observed was consistent. Are you saying I should discredit all that based on an HN comment smearing them as "right-wing"?

[ecshafer]

I believe you dataflow. I am saying wolvoleo is tilting at windmills. Maybe a republican mentioned it, but it was a popular topic on X (formerly twitter). Which tends to cause a weird counter reaction on bluesky. Europeans are complaining about it, and then its causing this strange split where some are saying AC is racist/destroying the world, and others are saying AC is good and we need it and the european regulations keeping them from AC is bad.

[ux266478]

It's coming from all over. It always has. It was understandably never so visible for people who don't hang out in casual international spaces, but it's not new and it's not owned by anyone. The reason it's so compelling isn't actually the lack of AC, it's because it's an easy button to push that gets people living in certain countries very defensive over something rather trivial.

I mean the lack of AC is definitely weird for a developed country, and the deflections about mild climate certainly aren't a posteriori, but it's the defensiveness and cope that makes it a button worth pushing in the first place.

[wolvoleo]

Well I am very anti-right-wing yes but I saw one of the top dogs in the US administration complain about this recently, I think it was Vance or Hegseth.

[gf000]

That's pretty regional, countries that historically had warmer summers have them available on basically every house.

Where the heatwave is only recent, there are some bureaucratic issues (like historic buildings should not get "defaced" by the external unit and whatnot), but I think this is way too exaggerated when talking about the whole of the EU.