[zbentley]

> I will acknowledge industrialization improved people's access to wealth and materialism.

And reduced illness, increased education, increased access to better nutrition, increased lifespan, increased able lifespan (knees/back/teeth don’t give out as early), and lots more.

Like, even if I grant that this replaced human connection (and I’m not sure that’s true, nor am I sure if it is meaningfully true—access to water replaces thirst, too), some very substantial benefits were acquired in return.

[nashashmi]

The theory that improved health and safety and lifespan will shrink the urge to procreate is so far fetched I find it hard to imagine. The longer you live, the more likely you seek connection. It would be easier to imagine that long lifespan and better health makes people less attached to their spouse.

[zbentley]

> improved health and safety and lifespan will shrink the urge to procreate

Not what I said at all. Note the “even if I grant … (which I don’t…)”.

[nashashmi]

Oh, I misunderstood. You were only talking about the greater positives of industrialization, to counter ideas against it. That is true without debate. Material wealth going up, plus improved health conditions, are all positives. Material wealth replacing human relationships is not.

[zbentley]

Thanks for clarifying and amending.

[toasty228]

We went too far though, the main causes of death in the west are now all due to overconsumption, more than 50% of westerners are overweight, etc.