[makeitdouble]

> you get a really good base model.

Why does it matter to _you_ in particular that the base model is good ?

For a decade buying macs I never got the base model, I switched to the Asus ROG series and a Surface Pro, and again I'mm not on the base model of either.

I get that MacBooks are very good volume purchases and excellent value for those right in the target, but IMHO that's not the people writing in this thread.

I'm also not a fan of the "winner takes it all" view, customers should care about their very specific needs and do their research, it shouldn't matter that some product matches 80% of other people's needs if it doesn't fit them.

[simondotau]

Base model used to mean glorified toy with severely compromised fundamentals. The Macbook Neo is not that. It is an excellent screen, excellent keyboard, and excellent silicon, encased in an excellent chassis.

As a remote work terminal / casual computing system, the compromises are IMHO almost entirely psychological.

[makeitdouble]

> glorified toy

> remote work terminal / casual computing

I'm having a hard time grasping the difference

[pjmlp]

8 GB is certainly a compromise and the main reason I won't consider it, for the price in euros.

[pdimitar]

MacBooks are still unbeaten hardware-wise. Yes 8GB of RAM is embarrassing, no question about it.

I'll buy a Neo just for travel. I will remote to my machines with it.

Though I'm flabbergasted why has nobody else made as thin and lightweight laptop like Apple... for decades. And that includes no fan, or just a very quiet one.

I have no love for Apple at all. But the Neo is a game-changer and a well-deserved kick in the nuts of, well, every other hardware company really.

[simondotau]

An interesting perspective the designers of the Tesla Model S had was "battery bucks". The oft-cited example was some fancy wheel bearing which had a expensive per-unit cost which no normal OEM would even consider, because being half a percent more efficient didn't matter. Whereas for Tesla, half a percent efficiency reduced the need for hundreds of dollars of batteries.

I wonder if there's some opportunity for Apple to think about "RAM bucks" and turn memory efficiency into an economic opportunity. I find it difficult to believe that modern operating systems actually need to consume so much.

[makeitdouble]

> MacBooks are still unbeaten hardware-wise.

I'm still fascinated by how people throw these praises around with no justifications what so ever.

Even staying within Apple lineups, as a thought experiment, do you think iPad Pro have inferior hardware ? they sure can't beat MacBooks, right ?

[pdimitar]

Point me at a laptop as small and quiet. Hell, let's forget weight. I'll gladly lug around 2.5kg machine if it almost never turns its fan on and is as compact.

Actually let's not care about compactness either. Can go up to 17". Just show me a truly quiet laptop.

You are misjudging me here. I'm moving back to Linux after using Macs for 7 years. My desktop Mac is soon going to be history. macOS makes too many choices for me that I dislike. We're not just talking stylistically or philosophically; those I can mostly get over if needed. We're talking objectively and technologically.

I want a good travel machine however. People look at you funny on meetups when your laptop starts blasting jet engines. Nobody is saying it out loud but you're becoming the odd one out and that has a social and career cost. (That's not even touching the fact that noisy machines stress me out and break my focus.)

I'll get a Neo for travel even if I hate giving Apple money. Because everyone else is two decades behind.

[makeitdouble]

We could do the same exercise in reverse:

Point me at a laptop with a touch and pen support and detachable keyboard, within the 13" range and 260+ppi resolution, that can virtually run modern software and mid-tier games at workable speeds.

That's the bar my personal laptop clears, and no mac does. Should I be claiming that it has unbeatable hardware ?

PS: We've been in this for a very long time. Even during the PowerPC days, it was a meme to take a mac, adjust for exactly the same hardware specs and tout that the mac was unbeatable for the price. Thing is, having different hardware specs and tradeoffs is exactly the point of the PC market. I still feel great for the people that exactly fit the "one size fits all" offering, but getting a machine that perfectly fits one's needs is extremely valuable IMHO.

[pjmlp]

Not really, I tend to avoid computer appliances, other than phones and tablets.

I certainly am not paying 800 euros for a travel laptop, when a 350 euros Asus 1215B, that could be upgraded, was able to survive about a decade, with 8GB in 2011!

[pdimitar]

How is its fan noise?

[simondotau]

It's not enough to be a primary workstation for anyone who reads Hacker News. But for me, a laptop is a secondary device for remote work. I have a base model M1 with 16GB of RAM, and honestly only got the RAM upgrade because I wasn't price sensitive. I'm typing this reply in a tab-infested Firefox right now, and even with a bunch of other programs open, active/wired memory is slightly less than 9GB.