[fontain]

I assume you’re being sarcastic but just in case: the goal of single payer healthcare isn’t to spend the least amount of money on healthcare. The goal of single payer healthcare is to guarantee everyone a minimum quality of life. You can believe that the minimum quality of life includes the option to engage in unprotected sex and sky diving.

[tt24]

I’m not being sarcastic. If you live in a society that chooses to force people to pay for other’s healthcare costs, you must support banning high risk behavior.

Not out of frugality. It’s a simple issue of fairness. 5% of the healthcare consumers will result in 95% of the costs. Why is it fair that the 5% that choose to engage in high risk behavior are subsidized at the expense of the 95% that choose not to?

[intended]

What is this comment? Yes, society curtails behaviors?

We wear helmets and seatbelts?

Insurance is entirely about paying a small amount so that the costs of being on the wrong side of bad luck doesn’t pauper your citizenry. A single payer system wildly reduces the amount that has to be paid, while increasing service outcomes since now you can negotiate with drug companies.

I would happily pay for that kind of system as well, because I am happy to ensure that the rest of the nation is better off.

[tt24]

Close! Insurance is a transaction I consent to engaging in, but a single payer system is not that.

[intended]

But… wait… what? Based on you what you say… why do you put money into an insurance system? It sounds like you want to make the most rational choice, but you are working off of a model of insurance that doesn’t make sense.

The maximally effective version, with the least cost, and greatest coverage is one that distributes costs across the largest pool of individuals. Which is a single payer system.

[tt24]

I put money into an insurance system to diffuse risk away from myself.

> The maximally effective version, with the least cost, and greatest coverage

It would be even more effective to just enslave a bunch of people and force them to pay for my healthcare, but I don’t advocate for that because it’s immoral and unfair.

[mancerayder]

You are already paying for other people's healthcare costs, whether it's private or public!

If you pay for home insurance (you kind of have to unless you own your home outright or are renting), you're paying for other people's fire or water damage. And one day they might pay for yours.

If there's a lot of fires or water damage, everyone's costs go up.

[bitshiftfaced]

It's not a perfect analogy because of factors that affect individual policies, such as the replacement cost of the home, moving next to a fireworks store, moving into a flood zone, etc. You pay more when your home is more at risk.

[tt24]

That’s a consensual transaction that I choose to engage in. Doesn’t apply to single payer or the NHS

[saalweachter]

If you are housed, you are almost certainly paying for home insurance, even if you rent.

[tt24]

1. Many landlords don’t require tenant’s insurance. 2. If you choose to get a mortgage you have to pay for homeowner’s insurance yes. You have the option to not get a mortgage if you prefer.

Notice how in both of the above, there is no third party forcing me to pay for anybody’s bad choices.

[saalweachter]

Your landlord has insurance on the property.

You are paying for it with your rent, just like you're paying property taxes.

[fontain]

Society is by definition “forcing” people to carry the burden of other’s choices. You’re drawing an entirely arbitrary line at direct taxation. Why is it “fair”? Because society isn’t zero sum. We each give and take in different ways.

[tt24]

Not sure how much a skydiving soda drinking drug user “””gives””” to society haha

[fontain]

Your perception of drug users is woefully out of date. The most “valuable” members of society by your metric (contributing tax dollars) are using a lot of drugs. The U.K. upper middle class are snorting so much coke.

[tt24]

Sorry I don’t believe this

[fontain]

You must not be living in the U.K. then.

https://theweek.com/health/britains-cocaine-habit-use-of-the...

[newdee]

Why not?