[theonething]

> As I said you beautifully ignored who started the conflict, it hardly began on Oct 7

In 1947, the UN passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine. It called for a two state solution, one for the Arabs and one for Israel. Britain supported it, the Jewish Agency supported it. Everyone supported it with the exception of, you guessed it, the Arabs. The Jewish were willing to compromise. Arabs, nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_...

Immediately after the Partition Plan was adopted by the UN, the 1948 Palestine War started. Guess who attacked first and started it? You guessed it, the Arabs.

> The prime minister literally came out of irgun the terrorist group. Its a known fact.

Sorry, you're getting your facts wrong again. In this list of members of Irgun, do a ctrl-f on Netanyahu and see what you get. That's right, nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_members

> And you don't need to ask me, just listen to the direct words of Bibi, Bezalel Smotrich and other Israeli government representatives how they want "Greater Israel" and wish for expansionism.

"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free" - Palestinian chant

In a survey conducted by the Arab World for Research and Development 74.7% Palestinians agreed that they support a single Palestinian state "from the river to the sea", while only 5.4% of respondents supported a "one-state for two peoples" solution. 3 out 4 Palestinians supported the Oct 7 massacre of Israelis

Who is expansionist now?

When you have a group who's ideological goal has always been to exterminate the Jewish people and Israel, Israel must defend itself.

[donkeybeer]

>When you have a group who's ideological goal has always been to exterminate the Jewish people and Israel, Israel must defend itself.

The locals didn't particularly give a shit about israel or jews until European jews began forcibly displacing them en masse. Jews lived there for centuries, sometimes treated better sometimes worse than Christians in Europe treated them.

[theonething]

> European jews began forcibly displacing them en masse

You'll need to support your claims with evidence or else they are just worthless.

The fact is Arabs were not willing compromise on a two state solution that Jewish Agency agreed to. (Balfour Declaration and the UN Partition Plan for Palestine).

The fact is currently, the majority of Palestinians want Israel exterminated. They still will not compromise with a two state solution. They just want to murder more Israelis.

[donkeybeer]

Why would anyone want to compromise against foreigners who illegally took over their lands? Its very simple, show me where the grandparents etc upto 3-4 generations ago of Israelis lived. And if they weren't in the geographical Israel did they come here peacefully or as a British project and later forcing the Brits to give up even more to these ingrates?

[donkeybeer]

The King David Hotel bombing wasn't started by arabs, it occurred much before the 48 date you have given. Its clear who started shit.

I wasn't talking about Netanyahu coming from Irgun but two other past prime ministers.

>From the river to the sea

Its very pleasing you quoted this slogan. And you accuse me of being biased? Do you know which Israeli political party's slogan this is?

Tell me, is this fake news: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/smotrich-calls-israels-bo... ?

Or any of the politicians quotes here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

[theonething]

> The King David Hotel bombing wasn't started by arabs, it occurred much before the 48 date you have given. Its clear who started shit.

So you're saying since it was the Irgun that bombed the Hotel, it's the Jews who started the Arab Israeli conflict.

Dude, get your facts straight. The 1946 Hotel bombing was against the British, not the Arabs. British administrative headquarters were housed in the Hotel and that was who the Irgun was targeting.

Read up and educate yourself before you speak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

If you want to go back before 1948:

The Battle of Tel Hai (March 1920): Often cited as the first military confrontation between Arab and Jewish forces. It involved a clash between a Palestinian Arab militia and Jewish defenders of the Tel Hai settlement. It started when a Shiite Arab militia and local Bedouin, led by Kamal al-Hussein, entered the Jewish settlement of Tel Hai.

The 1920 Nebi Musa Riots: In April 1920, Arab residents attacked Jews in the Old City of Jerusalem during a religious procession.

The 1921 Jaffa Riots: This started as a scuffle between two different Jewish groups. Arab onlookers mistook it as an attack against Arabs and started attacking Jews.

"Dozens of British, Arab, and Jewish witnesses all reported that Arab men bearing clubs, knives, swords, and some pistols broke into Jewish buildings and murdered their inhabitants, while women followed to loot. They attacked Jewish pedestrians and destroyed Jewish homes and stores. They beat and killed Jews in their homes, including children, and in some cases split open the victims' skulls."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots_(May_1921)

And they are still doing that today.

The 1929 Hebron Massacre: Prompted by rumors that Jews intended to seize the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Arab mobs killed 67 Jews in Hebron.

And again, you cherry pick some far right people and project them on to all of Israel. And you totally ignore the fact that early on the Jews were willing to compromise with a two state solution, but the Arabs were not willing. Today, 75% of Palestinians support the murder, rape and kidnapping of festival attendees, families and children. That plainly shows what kind of people they are and why Israel needs to defend itself.

[donkeybeer]

Why not, I cite these far right figures because these far right figures were instrumental in the creation of your country, and are still revered by many including officially.

The Irgun was targeting many things, they were of course ingrates who hated the Brits that had gifted their own colonial land to these frauds for free, but they were also conducting terroristic operations against arabs. It's all very simple really, Israel was doing tactics that were morally acceptable in the 1800s but had fallen out of fashion by mid 19th century. It's vety simple, just answer this. Where are the upto 3 to 4 previous generations of most current Israelis from. Are they from the Levant or are they from Europe? And if Europe, did they migrate peacefully to an existing country or take over lands someone else was living in?

[theonething]

> did they migrate peacefully to an existing country or take over lands someone else was living in?

The former. They legally bought land from Arab landowners. If the Arabs didn't want them there, they shouldn't have accepted their money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palest...

[theonething]

huh, no response to this point donkeybeer?

[donkeybeer]

Happy to say the 6.6% of those who can show legal documentation of a valid purchase should stay unharmed (as long as they aren't military combatants of course). 6.6% is not of course and quite far from 100%.

Where are the rest? The ones who don't have legal papers of purchase and whose immediate ancestors 2 to 3 generations back are in Europe? How do you think they managed to squat on land that isn't theirs, where they never lived in, and where they didn't have any legal deeds of sale?

[donkeybeer]

>Today, 75% of Palestinians support the murder, rape and kidnapping of festival attendees, families and children. That plainly shows what kind of people they are and why Israel needs to defend itself.

That's a theory, israelis cheering snd celebrating the release of rapsists is well documented fact.

[theonething]

> That's a theory

uh no, it's data from polling Palestinians directly

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/nearl...

[donkeybeer]

Do israelis cheer for rapists or do they not? It's a very simple question.

[theonething]

No. So far you've just supplied an article about some bad IDF reservists who beat a Palestinian prisoner. If they did that, they should be punished. But the article says the trial couldn't continue because the alleged victim was released to Gaza and therefore could not stand trial against the accused.

You haven't shown me any evidence to your assertion that Israeli's cheer for rapist, not even close.

But we do know 75% of Palestinians support the murder, rape and kidnapping of young people enjoying a music festival and the killing of children with their families in their homes. So any sane government must take steps so it doesn't happen again.

[donkeybeer]

Does Israel have anything named Geoffrey Morton road or any placques or monuments to this hero?

[theonething]

What a dumb argument.

[donkeybeer]

Why not? You said Irgun was declared a terrorist organization. If that is true why shouldn't you country honor the officer who killed several terrorists?

[donkeybeer]

>So you're saying since it was the Irgun that bombed the Hotel, it's the Jews who started the Arab Israeli conflict.

Hamas killed a few Israelis, that was perfectly fine reasoning for starting a genocidal military campaign against Palestine as a whole so I am not sure why that argument is a problem for you. Iran hasn't even directly attacked Israel the first shot, and they got invaded. So I don't see a problem if Irgun were a jewish milita, to say israel/jews started it.

[theonething]

> Hamas killed a few Israelis

1200 is not a few. They also raped, tortured, kidnapped Israeli civilians including children.

The words you use to downplay this atrocity shows me what kind of person you are.

[donkeybeer]

I said few not as a number but to mean (srael has no problems with genociding an entire population just for a few attackers so why should for example Israel have a problem with others doing the same to it?

[theonething]

The problem with your logic (or lack thereof) is Hamas attacked first and Israel responded. And if Israel really wanted to "genocide" the Palestinians, they could have easily bombed the whole place to hell. But they didn't. They warned civilians beforehand and directed them to southern areas where they wouldn't be bombed.

[donkeybeer]

I said few not as anumber but to mean (srael has no problems with genociding an entire population just for a few attackers so why should for example Israel have a problem with others doing the same to it?

[theonething]

> So I don't see a problem if Irgun were a jewish milita, to say israel/jews started it.

Because the Irgun attack on the Hotel was an attack against Britain, not the Arabs. So you are saying Jews started the war against the Arabs by attacking Britain. How is that even close to being logical?

And since you so conveniently ignored my citations on instances of Arab attacks against Israel that were well before this Hotel incident (happened in 1946) that you like repeatedly cite as the proof of "who started this shit", I'll list them again.

The Battle of Tel Hai (March 1920): Often cited as the first military confrontation between Arab and Jewish forces. It involved a clash between a Palestinian Arab militia and Jewish defenders of the Tel Hai settlement. It started when a Shiite Arab militia and local Bedouin, led by Kamal al-Hussein, entered the Jewish settlement of Tel Hai.

The 1920 Nebi Musa Riots: In April 1920, Arab residents attacked Jews in the Old City of Jerusalem during a religious procession.

The 1921 Jaffa Riots: This started as a scuffle between two different Jewish groups. Arab onlookers mistook it as an attack against Arabs and started attacking Jews.

"Dozens of British, Arab, and Jewish witnesses all reported that Arab men bearing clubs, knives, swords, and some pistols broke into Jewish buildings and murdered their inhabitants, while women followed to loot. They attacked Jewish pedestrians and destroyed Jewish homes and stores. They beat and killed Jews in their homes, including children, and in some cases split open the victims' skulls."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots_(May_1921)

And they are still doing that today.

The 1929 Hebron Massacre: Prompted by rumors that Jews intended to seize the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Arab mobs killed 67 Jews in Hebron.

The violent, blood thirsty Arabs started this shit.

[donkeybeer]

Yes and why were these ingrates committing terrorist attacks against the very country that gifted its own lands to them? What does it say about Israels founders character?

You said Irgun were declared terrorists so I find it strange that the Israel doesn't seem to have ant plaques or monuments to a great British hero who eliminated 5 terrorists.

[theonething]

Your original assertion was Jews "started this shit". They didn't. Arabs did.

[donkeybeer]

Do you consider the current Israeli government far right? What do Israelis think of Bibi? Beacause you said I cited some fsr.right figures and projected thrm onto the entirety of Israel. If so enough Israelis are "far right" that they voted for one such figure.

To show I am mot being racist, I am happy to use the same standards for the USA and Trump.

[theonething]

Whether the government is far right or not depends on who you ask. However you want to label Israel, it has a right to defend itself against people who want to invade Israeli territory and kill, rape and kidnap its citizens.

[donkeybeer]

You are changing my words. That was a response to you saying

>And again, you cherry pick some far right people and project them on to all of Israel. And you totally ignore the fact that early on the Jews were willing to compromise with a two state solution, but the Arabs were not willing. Today, 75% of Palestinians support the murder, rape and kidnapping of festival attendees, families and children. That plainly shows what kind of people they are and why Israel needs to defend itself.

If these are so called far right and voted in to the government, then why should we treat Lebensraum as an exceptional opinion instead of a sentiment shared by the majority of your country?

[theonething]

Israel has a righ to defend itself against people who support the invasion, murder, rape and kidnapping of its citizens.