[outforwilds]

Outer Wilds, and imperatively its DLC, are transcendent gaming experiences.

Like many, I stopped playing my first time over a frustration with the jet pack and ship movement controls.

I returned later, this time determined to master the movement controls only to find that after mastering them you eventually abandon perfect movement for efficiency anyways and perfect gameplay looks a lot like the initial flailings.

Anytime you get 'stuck' in the game the answer is always, "what have you tried, what can you try instead?" Illuminating the tendency to presuppose an answer, and grow frustrated when it fails repeatedly.

It's certainly a "just play it without looking up anything about it" game. I went in without being spoiled by the "first surprise" that is referenced in this article and was stunned when I figured it out.

Swapping FPS violence for scientific and archaeological discovery, and a wholesome story centered on the social bonds of music make for a truly wonderful gaming experience.

I highly recommend the game to anyone.

[Terr_]

In terms of things I'd say to encourage someone to play without spoilers, I think I'd focus on mechanics, like:

1. The game has depth to its locations that shows up on repeated visits. Expect to return with better tools/information to see new things. Shortcuts will reveal themselves over time.

2. There is an in-game tool that takes notes for you, hints at undiscovered content, and can provide on-screen waypoints to help you navigate.

3. Don't be too worried about your (avatar's) personal safety, or about rushing. Later there may be times where both might matter for your goals, but the game is designed to support trial-and-error.

[Wojtkie]

One thing to note too is the game can be beaten in the first 10-15 minutes or so without any glitches. You just need to have figured out the grand puzzle of the game. I found that really unique and interesting, like the solution was always available to me but the block was my knowledge of the world, not mechanics or something like an unlockable skill or level.

[ishouldstayaway]

This is why it's untenable to talk about spoilers in Outer Wilds - 100% of the progression happens in your own mind. Telling someone too much about the game isn't just ruining the surprise or whatever; in a real sense it's playing the game for them rather than letting them play it themselves.

[Terr_]

> 100% of the progression happens

Faced with such a statement, the contrarian in me spent a little while trying to remember any exceptions. I won't say "the ship's computer", since that would be against the spirit of the thing, and by extension certain things involving signals/waypoints.

I think certain actions with the Advanced Warp Core would qualify, breaking the usual progression rules and often leading to an alternate ending.

[smallmancontrov]

2. Yes! The automatic notes are perfect for getting back on track without spoilers. "There is more to explore here."

[Terr_]

I know for some people it removes a sense of wonder and mystery, but as a completionist sort, I really appreciate "you found everything nearby" indicators. It means the game/designer respects my time as a human with (a few) other things to do everyday.

[hibikir]

Which points out one of the yet reasons why I consider Outer Wilds one of the best games I have ever played, while Blue Prince, which many consider a similar game, as one of the worst. Respect for my time and for where I want to focus my attention.

[tialaramex]

I understand why this was frustrating, but the problem is that what you wanted conflicts with the game design. Random drafting is crucial to Blue Prince's design - which means early on when you have few resources and no knowledge you won't be able to "focus my attention" because the draft will override your preferences. This isn't an issue for a late game player, but of course you can't get there.

FWIW while I enjoyed watching other people play Outer Wilds, I found the fine control needed too frustrating. I might decide to investigate part of Brittle Hollow, travel there, fall into the hole, painstakingly get back, fall in again, reset, new day. That's exactly the same frustration you had, but for a different reason and as a result I was often unable to tell which of three things was true:

1. That cannot be done, it's an important fact about Outer Wilds, a revelation

2. I can't do that, I'm incompetent. Sucks to be me. Maybe try again?

3. That cannot be done, whoops, game engine limitation, unimportant.

I never had this in Blue Prince and so I was much better able to enjoy both the game itself and watching others play after I was done (Atelier etc.)

[BoppreH]

Random drafting is only part of the problem. My biggest gripe was the lack of in-run saving. When a run can take an hour, that's just disrespectful in a single player offline game.

And another (smaller) issue is the step limit. End game has you running to pretty far away areas. The walking itself quickly gets old, but you sometimes waste the entire run because you didn't have enough steps for the required back-and-forth.

That being said, I greatly enjoyed how note-taking was rewarded. By the end I had over 600 screenshots organized in different folders.

[thunderfork]

I understand where you're coming from, but I think this part of BP's nature is critical to its ludonarrative symmetry, in much the same way that OW's gameplay structure frames its narrative.

(rot13, spoilers for both) Bhgre Jvyqf vf n tnzr nobhg trarengvbaf, yrggvat tb, ohvyqvat n shgher lbh jba'g frr, rgp.; jurernf Oyhr Cevapr vf n tnzr nobhg bofrffvba - obgu gur bofrffvba gung yrnqf gb tenaq qvfpbirel, ohg nyfb gur bofrffvba gung yrnqf gb qrrc qryhfvba

[Terr_]

P.S.: And if you're playing on a PC, know that there is one section of the game where you need to use your ship thrusters so very gently that it almost requires you to to use a controller.

[ishouldstayaway]

I can't imagine playing Outer Wilds any other way. It's clearly designed as a controller game. (Doesn't it even explicitly tell you as much before you start, or am I thinking of another game?)

[Terr_]

> It's clearly designed as a controller game.

Sure, but it's still sold as a game you can complete with a KB+M, and--to its credit--it succeeds at that promise basically everywhere else. The defect is how it fails "hard" rather than just being a momentary inconvenience:

1. The issue is hidden and surprising: When it finally appears, it presents like a misunderstanding of clues, or an AI bug. A PC user who has done well for hours with KB+M has no reason to suddenly expect a new non-obvious game mechanic will be impassable* due to the control scheme. (Which is exactly why I felt it was worth mentioning in a list of tips.)

2. No good workaround: Even if the user realizes what's happening, there's not much* you can do about it. The game still punishes you even if you try to feather the inputs with brief taps. Just one additional keybind option (e.g. "slow thrust forward") would have helped.

* Excepting buying a controller, or multiple error-prone attempts at setting your ship on an ultra-slow passive drift for minutes while you do something else.

[mpyne]

Yes, it mentions this on each game startup.

[zeroonetwothree]

I wasn’t really a fan, didn’t like the gameplay loop.

A puzzle game I liked 100x more is “Baba is You”. Should be very appealing to programmers.

[urxvtcd]

Baba is You is literally a sokoban for software engineers, highly recommended. It's quite difficult though.

[Levitz]

Worth checking out Nimi's Garden map pack too, could be called Baba is You 2 really.

[stavros]

I didn't really get it, and the problem with these games is that you can't ask, because you might spoil the surprise. The controls were fine, even fun, but I just wasn't really captivated by the story.

I don't know if I'm missing something that would make the game click for me, or if I just won't enjoy it. I can't ask anyone, because I'll ruin it if I am actually missing something.

[Zizizizz]

Pretty good youtube video that may help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHwZd53CyLc

[stavros]

Thank you!

[pawelduda]

Nowadays you can ask LLM (Gemini is great for this), specifically for a spoiler-free clue

[stavros]

Hm it wasn't so much that I got stuck, I more didn't really enjoy the genre, but maybe I did miss something. Asking the LLM is a great idea, thanks!

[pluralmonad]

After this comment I immediately closed my eyes and stuck my fingers in my ears (and added the game to my wishlist). I appreciate the rec, it looks great.

[the__alchemist]

The "first surprise" is why I tell people "Just play this game, and don't look up anything about it!".

The two games the article has pictures of games are IMO everyone who plays games should play; they are two of the best of all time.

[bsimpson]

I stopped reading when he started naming things in Outer Wilds. (Perhaps ironic, considering the title.)

What are the games you're recommending?

[xerox13ster]

It is insane to me that they ask that question in the title of the article and then go on to spoil the big first surprise.

“How do we talk to people about these games without spoiling it for them? Oh, I know I will spoil it for everybody who reads this article!!!

“It’s one of my favorite in the genre (maybe the best) and it requires a level of secrecy because it takes away the wow factor if you learn details about it early, but ANYWAYS here’s some details about it!!!!!!!!”

[the__alchemist]

Outer Wilds and Blue Prince

[superultra]

Your username checks out!

As someone who’s played a lot of video games, very few gameshave come close to the experience that was Outer Wilds.

Textbook definition of a game I wish I could forget so I could play again for the first time.

[mh2266]

is it really a puzzle game? I recently dragged myself through The Witness finally and found it to be mostly not that interesting, most puzzle games have bounced off me similarly.

Outer Wilds, though, what a game. but it felt more like exploring in BotW, even although there is obviously no combat... kinda? there is sort of "combat" in one of the planets, although the only thing that you can do is lose. hmm, that planet is like BotW, but you have 3 hearts and a stick, and every enemy is a Lynel.

[mpyne]

Yeah I generally enjoy puzzle games and didn't find Outer Wilds very good from that perspective. And it had some surprisingly intensive dexterity requirements in sections of the game that make it impossible to progress without looking up spoilers, and I'm not talking about the spaceship controls.

And when I finally put the game down and just watched through the rest on Youtube, like, I could see what the game was getting at and why people would be fascinated by it but it was by no means life-changing unless you've had a very boring life.

[dugidugout]

It isn't very meaningful to assert your arbitrary threshold for "life-changing" as a criteria to measure one's life. It is quite distracting as a closer to an otherwise thoughtful reply.

[mpyne]

People who talk about Outer Wilds describe it that way. For instance just two comments up in the thread is "Outer Wilds, and imperatively its DLC, are transcendent gaming experiences." And this is the normal type of comment you see when this game comes up.

If this were objectively true that the game is simply transcendent (assuming we can agree on what this would mean), then it would make sense to power through an otherwise unexpectedly arduous game that you thought was going to be more akin to a puzzle game, because of the experience you would be able to take with you and ponder afterwards. The destination would make the rough journey worth it.

Having bought and played through much of the game based on the evangelism for it online, I simply want to make clear that it should not be considered a unanimous opinion that the game is transcendent and that a rough journey would therefore be worth it.

Saying too much about the game itself would spoil it for people who would enjoy it, but those who might be leery of it deserve to know that it's still a game, can still be unenjoyable if it's not your thing, and that you won't necessarily miss an irreplacable life-changing positive experience if you don't knock it off of your Bucket List.

I apologize for going against the orthodoxy with regard to this game, but people deserve to know they're not alone if they didn't find it the experience it was advertised to be.

[Hammershaft]

What constitutes life-changing and what constitutes intensive dexterity will subjectively vary by person based on their skills and tastes.

I didn't find the game to require much dexterity, but I did find it to have interest world design and ideas that have stuck with me for years.

[3eb7988a1663]

It is not Hollow Knight, but I recall there were a few parts that required quite a bit more skilled platforming than the game theme would imply.

If nothing else, there are some sections which have somewhat tight time windows which can put a lot of tension into a puzzle game. Resetting an attempt to a failed set piece might take several minutes, adding to the frustration.

[ishouldstayaway]

> it was by no means life-changing unless you've had a very boring life.

Why this shitty jab at the end? What a needlessly petty thing to say.

[OkayPhysicist]

There are two, rather fundamentally distinct categories of games that we call "puzzle" games. There's the ones that are simply a series of puzzles based on a similar set of mechanics (Baba is You, Bombe, anything Zachtronics every did), and then there's games where the entire world is a puzzle, where you explore to find clues to solve puzzles that unlock more world and more puzzles, like Myst. Outer Wilds is solidly in the latter category.

[mathieuh]

Have you tried the Talos Principle (and it sequel)? I also didn't like The Witness but the Talos Principle games are some of my favourites

[runevault]

I really should get back to outer wilds. I like you bounced off of it because of the controls, and I keep meaning to go back because people I have faith in swear by it. I know the most basic secret you learn incredibly early, but that's the only 'spoiler' I know.

[superultra]

Do it! You’ll likely thank us later.

The controls are wonky but it’s not a AAA title, so there are things about it that are a little rough for sure.

[embedding-shape]

I guess this is the one time maybe reading the comments first saved me of a spoiler I didn't want to be exposed to, so thank you :) Guess I finally need to give it a try before it get accidentally spoiled for me.

[zargon]

Controls were great, didn't see whatever it is that people love about the story, and the game loop made me quit.

[ajoseps]

I’ve played the main game but never the DLC. Is it worth going back and running through again?

[outforwilds]

Yes!

Introduces what is easily my favorite planet, and a completely new story of nearly identical length.

New characters, new tools, new mechanics, new puzzles. Same feel (except narratively its a bit more spoopy). It's like a selfquel.

(Also, worth noting that if you start a new game, you can just go straight to playing the DLC content without having to replay or complete the base game)

[tialaramex]

I think it is worth knowing that the spookiness isn't for everybody and is the part most likely to turn some players off. The game offers features to make it as mild as possible without destroying their narrative intent, but it is definitely there.

If you know that you frighten easily and don't react well to it - like maybe you went in a haunted house ride once and then couldn't sleep for a week, this might not be your jam and that's OK.

It's not a skill issue, the game has been conceived so that if you scare easily but keep playing you can work around the issue and succeed. But obviously if after that initial moment of terror you just can't face playing any more that's not a good purchase.

[outforwilds]

Definitely, but said spookiness is also completely without violence or gore or any real "horror" tropes other than trying to stealth your way through dark hallways.

[jamilton]

(Light spoilers) Supposedly the design intent was that you're not supposed to stealth in the dark much at all! It's really not obvious though, so it's a bit of a failure of design in that particular aspect. Interview with a dev: https://medium.com/@cordialkobold/interview-with-alex-beachu...

Still spooky atmosphere for sure.

[epiccoleman]

Great link, thanks for sharing!

[superultra]

I didn’t find the DLC quite as good as the OG however the storyline is excellent, and I actually liked most of the puzzles; I say actually because the puzzles are its most often critiqued part.

[humodz]

Yeah, it ties up the game perfectly

[archargelod]

To counter-balance the positive comments - I've found the DLC dissapointing. It replaces fun of trial and error with hours of boring walking in the dark and cheap horror elements. The best part is probably the "surprise" section, but the rest is just meh.

[Cthulhu_]

The movement wasn't too big an issue for me, but that's probably because I've played Kerbal Space Program, in which moving around in space is a pretty steep learning curve.

Anyway, that aside, it's a great game, you get a board where you can see everything you've discovered, whether you missed anything important, and links to other things you can pursue still. Or just go to a random planet / place of interest.

[glimshe]

I hate Outer Wilds and is one of the few games I stopped playing out of sheer frustration. The movement mechanics are a sign of lack of respect for the player.

Blue Prince is the best puzzle game in the past 10 years.