[up_and_up]

In my opinion, Meditation and Mindfullness are not the same thing.

Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent, the breath slows waaaay down, the heartbeat slows waaaay down. Slowly ever so slowly, some bliss starts to bubble up from within. It is the climax of one pointed attention. Few people who say they "meditate" are reaching that point since it requires years of sincere effort. In Yoga, meditation is known as Dhyana, or the state resulting from the mind becoming one pointed for 100 seconds. Samadhi, which is considered a state of deep bliss is considered reached when the mind becomes completely still for 1000 seconds.

Mindfullness, is the act of being more aware during daily activities. Like watching actions and interactions. There is a gradual tendency to modify behavior to being more calm, collected and centered which helps to go deeper when attempting to meditate. The mind is still active during mindfullness, but it is being directed or corrected as needed throughout the day.

Meditation helps to develop deeper Mindfullness and vice versa. Meditation is like taking a shower, whereas Mindfullness is avoiding rolling in the mud and getting dirty. It is important to keep in mind that Meditation is literally a state where the mind is free from thought and that all the "meditation practices and techniques" are just different paths of reaching that same place.

[zupreme]

This is simply incorrect. There are many different types of meditation with many different types of goals.

Some meditation disciplines involve slowing the breath down, while others involve speeding the breath up (research Breath of Fire). Some meditation disciplines involve quieting the mind and ignoring stimuli, while others involve opening the floodgates of sensation to more fully experience stimuli (research Vipassana).

The reality is that almost no single person can say what is and is not meditation because meditation comes in many different forms, in many different traditions, from many different sources.

Anyone who arrogates to him or herself the authority to say what is and is not meditation is regrettably mistaken.

[up_and_up]

Thanks for your comment. I agree that 'Meditation' means many things to many people. Thus, I started my comment above with "In my opinion" which makes the whole comment subjective to my experience. The definition I give above, refers to the Patanjali Yoga Sutra definition of Dhyana, which is essentially an extremely old technical document related to meditation and yoga.

Something to consider, is that there seems to be some confusion on this thread between meditative practices and meditative states etc. This would be like comparing the act of drinking a lot of alcohol with the drunkenness that results. There are many different types of alcohol and varying means of consuming it but that state that results from its consumption is somewhat common to most people.

In my comment above, I was referring to Meditation as a state of consciousness where the sense organs and mind become highly introverted. In that state the mind slows way down and comes to a stop.

[prawks]

If one were looking to get into Meditation, what is a good way of going about it? Preferably a DIY way if possible, but if a class is really the way to go that's okay.

When you say years of sincere effort, are you talking devoting a full-time job's worth of time, or just keeping a routine?

I've been interested in meditation for a while, but it seems whenever I try and dig around I get completely lost in literature and terms and fail to see a proper starting point. I'm not looking to go crazy, I like the idea of Mindfullness and having a better understanding of how to control the ebb and flow of your thoughts.

[starpilot]

I've read maybe a dozen books on vipassana meditation (the type usually posted to HN), zen, and mindfulness. The two best practical books on meditation I've read are:

1. The Miracle of Mindfulness, Thich Nhat Hanh

2. Mindfulness in Plain English, Bhante Gunaratana. This one is free online, though the paid copy is a bit more edited for clarity.

My primary guide is 1. It's concise and provides just the right amount of breathing exercises to help me focus while I "sit." 2 is more comprehensive but I've found it a bit too scattered, with too many tools to help with breathing that I go in circles attempting different ones. Most people I think employ a couple and ignore the rest. 1 is much better written and just a more cohesive book than 2 IMO, but they're both great books and either one alone works well as a guide to meditating.

[ma2rten]

The later is available for free online:

http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/mindfulness_in_plain_english....

[rdudekul]

I highly recommend the book Passage Meditation by Eknath Easwaran.

[eternalban]

Reading it now. (ot: His commentary on the Gita is also quite lovely.)

[krrrh]

I know it's not what you want to hear, but doing the 10 day Goenka vipassana course really makes a huge difference in getting established in the technique. I tried a few things, but didn't really click until doing it. To me sacrificing a 10 day vacation ended up being a lot more practical than slogging away by myself for years. Now I can miss practicing for a while but still get back to it in short order.

[sophacles]

Different people lear different ways of course, but for me what worked really well was reading about it, a lot, on the internet and trying out various things. At the same time I went to a local zen center that does mindful meditation. They have a short course on various techniques, and people who have been practicing for a long time - this is always good for me, I like to ask questions. The other nice thing about the zen center is that 2 days a week they had sitting meditation time. So you show up, and meditate in a big room with other people. Again, just personal preference, but being there, where the meditation was the focus, helped me not succumb to distraction (also, because I didn't want to be rude and be fidgety, noisy,or otherwise distracting to other poeple).

As for sincere effort, it isn't full time job style, but, it isn't "just" keeping a routine. It is keeping a routine, and actively trying to improve your meditation technique. Much like going golfing every week isn't the same as intentionally practicing your swing or putting with a coach every week.

[intended]

Brute force:

Allocate a certain room and time religiously where you will sit down every day. Reduce distractions to nil zealously.

Sit on the floor, cross your legs and close your eyes.

Now focus on taking deep slow breaths. Every time a thought comes, and you get focused on it, relax and let it go. Refocus on your breath.

Its more practice than technique.

The aim is pretty simple - be able to witness your thoughts and let them go. Finally you reach no thought.

[wakoumel]

You cannot stop your thoughts, it's like trying to capture the wind by opening your jacket. The point of meditation that most miss is that it is an experiment rather than a quiet place you're trying to reach. You discover what your emotions are, what you think about, etc. There is no goal other than observation of your mind and to consistently bring your attention back to your breath. The reason you sit and don't move is only to start at the most basic thing you can do, but the point is not the sitting and becoming still, it is to learn how to carry your awareness with you where ever you go and no matter what you do. When you can do this, things change.

To get started I recommend finding a group and going a few times at first to understand good posture and breathing techniques. There is no right way to meditate so which group you join probably doesn't matter. I personally like the methods of Zen or Shambhala.

I have actually managed to meditate for 20-30 minutes first thing every morning for the last 26 days in a row, although over the years I've been practicing on and off. The trick I've found to do it everyday for nearly a month now has been to use some findings in behavioral economics.

The idea is this: come up with a challenge for a month and a small but immediate punishment for yourself if you don't meet it. For example, donating $50 to an organization you hate if you don't meditate when you knew you should've (obviously any real crises are exempt from any skipping). It is amazing how well this works. Suddenly I have 20 minutes at home to just sit down so the Westboro Church doesn't get any of my money.

But to more correctly answer your question, just keeping a routine is enough. We cannot all become monks, but if you can ever get to a place where 20-40 minutes is a daily routine, it will change your life. Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions on books to start with, etc.

[crntaylor]

Your email is not visible to others in your profile. You need to put it in the 'about me' box if you want people to be able to contact you.

[rohamg]

You donated to the westboro church?

[jh3]

He says he uses that as motivation to keep his routine alive.

[kylebrown]

On what to do physically, my recommendation is to use mediation beads (aka mala beads). 6-count breathing (6 on each inhale and exhale) and move one bead each breath. With the standard 108-beads, you start at the mala and it takes about 20 minutes to reach the end (you feel your fingers reach the mala again).

For the mental aspect, a good starting point is the audio session Alan Watts Teaches Mediation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tYENNBA0cA

[hollerith]

Beads, eh? I wrote an Emacs command to notify me when my meditation period has ended.

[kylek]

Oh yeah! Good ol' C-x M-c M-beads...

(... http://xkcd.com/378/ )

[kylebrown]

I suppose that would work. Press a key on each breath, and use a script to alert after 108 keystrokes.

[hollerith]

I don't go in for doing the same thing over and over like some Buddhists like to do.

It's just a timer, which I set for 3 to 5 minutes. When the timer reaches 0, (part of) a particular song plays. (And a record is made of the start and end times of the meditation session.)

In the rare case that I am doing something other than meditating when that song plays, I know I got so distracted that I did not even notice I got distracted -- which I take as a sign that I have an unusually pressing need for meditation that day.

[crntaylor]

Do you find that 3-5 minutes is enough? I just tried meditating for the first time, and set a 5 minute timer. When it went off, it felt like only 2 minutes had passed and I could have (and wanted to) go on longer.

[webwanderings]

As part of my DYI, I would drop the guilt of not being able to go the traditional route. Being mindful, staying in here-now, is not easy either and it may not work for you well, but it is something one can try quiet easily at any given moment. When you walk, observe. When you eat, observe and only eat. Taste the food and only eat. So on and so forth. I believe this is the best DIY of meditation, though not everyone agrees that being mindfulness is meditation, but I tend to think that it IS meditation and not necessarily mindfulness, because the goal of being in here-now is to eliminate the distraction of past/future and not really to concentrate. However, on the other hand, the typical meditation techniques (of mantra or other types) would want you to concentrate on something.

[up_and_up]

Thanks for the question. I started with DIY meditation. I got a couple of books, mainly the techniques were repeating some phrase, focusing on the breath etc. This was okay for me to start. But I have been working with a teacher for about 12 years, which really helped. There are lots of different types of meditation, some with religious or spiritual undertones and others that are completely outside all that. Find a style that you vibe with based on what you think/believe and run with that.

By "years of sincere effort" I mean practicing daily. 20-30 mins is probably enough to start. I would compare it to playing an instrument. Daily practice is pretty essential.

[justinhj]

I took a meditation class at a Buddhist temple. There wasn't any Buddhism taught in the class, only meditation techniques. The advantage in my case was that going to a class where I had to sit for an hour prevented me from procrastinating about practising meditation. That alone was worth it. After a few weeks I went from no meditation experience to being able to sit for 45 minutes at a time, and found many of the proclaimed benefits of meditation come right away.

[robertp]

Ive been working with a personal coach recently and at the start of each session we start with a guided 2-3 minutes of mediation practice. One way to do on your own is with mp3's and doing on your own. Really from my personal experience thats not expert driven at all, even doing 5 minutes a day before you day starts is a great way to start for weeks or months on end. Just those 5 minutes of calm and awareness can do a lot, it has for me.

[idoruby]

Meditation is best done in community. Just because you will have many questions while travelling in this new space. Goenka offers a free 10 day experience and a community of meditators. Absolutely not a cult. Give it a try.

Do this and you will no longer have doubts about meditation. You will like it or hate it but you will know what it is.

[rsaarelm]

Here's one interesting short guide: http://lesswrong.com/lw/5jj/meditation_insight_and_rationali...

[kamaal]

After reading this I don't why would anyone ever want to meditate, there are no benefits mentioned at all and getting it wrong means life long misery.

[rsaarelm]

What I got from it that you get problems if you advance far enough and then don't keep going. The benefit claimed in the first part of the series is having a permanently clearer sense of your thinking process, whatever that means exactly.

I really prefer the 'this may mess you up if done wrong' meditation instruction to the usual sanitized new agey pap, purely on aesthetic level. It makes meditation sound like something that can actually be effective. Like a scalpel instead of a homeopathic solution.

Another fun article: http://blog.muflax.com/propaganda/why-you-dont-want-vipassan...

[prostoalex]

Mindfulness to Go: How to Meditate While You're On the Move is practical and written with Western reader in mind.

[webwanderings]

The mindfulness, which I called meditation below, is sort of a way to say that you - any average individual - can get on the path of blissfulness without waiting for, or waiting to start the path of meditation (of your example).

It really all boils down to each individual and their capacity of how they wish to learn.

Some people can easily start the meditation (of any type beginning with what the author describe in the source, of breathing exercises) to mantra meditation to anything else. However, if the above methods does not come easily to you, you can still meditate by being in here-now (what you describe as mindfulness).

The point is, that we don't have to be dogmatic about meditation and everyone can easily and equally get on the path of bliss and self-improvement in all walks of life.

For far too long, the traditional culture has sort of relegated the arts and artists to the lower pole of meaningful life. What is being suggested here is that either you can plainly observe the sun rising, or you can take pride in your singing or painting....all of these artistic self-expressions give you containment which leads to blissfulness...something an average meditator of various type would achieve by sitting idle or concentrating as their practice.

The more one stays in here-now, the more the mind sheds the distractions, the more there is bliss.

[Hari_Seldon]

I think that there is a tendency amongst us westerners to believe that meditation is about attaining something, Chögyam Trungpa described this as a type of "spiritual materialism". I've noticed this behaviour repeatedly, people feeling the need to quantify theirs and others progress or lack thereof.

If the writer of the TFA experiences 4 seconds of emptying his mind and a state of bliss, does it really matter that he didn't in your opinion use the correct terminology? or wasn't in the state long enough for this or that term to apply?

I enjoyed the article, it has inspired me to take up my own practise again, even 1 second of no thoughts and blissful awareness at the beginning of my day changes everything.

[joelthelion]

>I think that there is a tendency amongst us westerners to believe that meditation is about attaining something

Of course there is. It's the only rational reason to do something: for present or future benefit. Otherwise you quit the realm of reason and enter the domain of religion.

[davidtanner]

That is what many Westerners, especially those here on HN, miss. Meditation is expressly a religious/spiritual tool.

It's a technology of the sacred in the same way that visionary plants and chemicals are. In fact visionary plants can be a very effective preview/shortcut of the end goals a meditator wishes to reach.The point of meditation is to quiet the mind so that one can know God*

*Where here "God" means an experiential state of nondual, atemporal awareness radically different from our normal states of waking and dreaming.

[specialist]

> Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent

That wasn't my experience. I tried very hard to attain that "no thought" state. At best, I was able to let my thoughts flow without holding on to them.

I concluded that silent mind thing is an analogy. The opposite of "don't think of a pink elephant" causes you to think of a pink elephant. When you have "no thought" you just let the thought come and go without trying to process (consider, internalize, whatever) it.

But I haven't compared notes with others, gurus, whomever. YMMV.

[up_and_up]

"I concluded that silent mind thing is an analogy"

Thanks for the comment, I can definitely concur that stopping the mind is not easy.

When I started running, I would have told you that for me, running a 5 minute mile was probably impossible. After training a bit, I was able to achieve it consistently. But a key thing to keep in mind, is that I had a coach and other teammates to train with. This helped me believe I could reach goal and gave me the tools to do so.

I think you can probably get the analogy here.

[ncarroll]

Hmm, if you are timing the experience in order to categorize it later, is your mind, maybe, not empty?

[eightbitman]

You are incorrect, but my fees are pretty steep, and I accept cash only, so I can't explain it to you here.