[msgodel]

All of us paying attention saw how the systemd authors shopped their stuff around issue trackers and mailing lists telling everyone "it's just the way it is now." They absolutely did manufacture the situation. They pushed hard enough doing this that it's resulted in multiple large distros being forked by groups of former maintainers.

[panick21_]

Oh my god, they told other people they are developing open source software and that they like their own software. Say it aint so. Have we informed the authorities about this?

[pcpuser]

Care to share any evidence to back up the tall claim that systemd authors forced their code on anyone?

[gatlin]

The claim was "shopped around" and if you are going to change people's words do not be surprised when nobody takes your challenge. And preemptively: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[pcpuser]

What does "shopped around" mean? That's not a common or accepted idiom for code. Or not one I've come across anyway.

Also show me evidence of them "shopping around" code. I'll wait.

[nixosbestos]

Truly, don't bother. I've been watching this conversation play out for 10 years. I've watched it play out with systemd, udev, rust, Wayland.

Just ignore them. Their validation is meaningless. Their ignorance is mostly meaningless, too, for reasons that feel mean to type out.

[justinrubek]

I'm getting the sense that both sets of parties here have a strong opinion and that this isn't a real discussion because of that.

[gatlin]

Strong opinions don't make something not a discussion. Announcing to the room how aloof you are though does make you not very aloof.

[nixosbestos]

Yeah my strong opinion is that I have better hidpi support than any other platform, no tearing, ever, a better security model, the x devs have abandoned x11. They have accessibility (which I am completely sympathetic to, but is rarely the actual point) and a bunch of hand waving neck beard bullshit.

I have worked on DEs, I have committed to compositors. I know which side has more merit.

[gatlin]

My task here was to reprimand you for arguing disingenuously, not to teach you language or do homework for you. What an appallingly entitled way to carry yourself.

[rbanffy]

> absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

After holding up well for a long time, absence of evidence becomes a good indicator for actual evidence of absence.

[codeguro]

obligatory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11797075