[lucianbr]

I wonder about the "never lie" bit. Any kind of negotiation comes to mind, where it might be best to not show your hand completely. You might be negotiating for your family, for your business, for your country even. Is it ok to accept a worse result in the name of honesty as a principle?

Sure the world might be a better place if everyone told the truth always. But this is advice for this world, not a hypothetical one.

[bityard]

I wouldn't worry about taking every single one of these literally. A rule like this is meant as a compass bearing, not a precise set of directions to a perfect life.

Besides, it's totally possible to negotiate in good faith without lying. Professional negotiators actively advise against lying because A) you might get caught B) it's harder to remember a lie than the truth later on. (This is how a lot of criminals get caught.) If someone wants to know something you don't want them to know, you don't have to answer. Tell them it's not relevant or change the topic.

[wutwutwat]

> Tell them it's not relevant

So, lie then, is what you should do instead of lying, in order to have a good faith negotiation.

Ps a lot of corporations commit crimes. They are professional liars, they don’t lose track and when they do get caught (hardly anyone is looking), they pay a fine and do it again.“Cost of doing business” if you will. Plus your common criminal usually isn’t able to get politicians elected by contributing hundred of millions to their campaigns, etc.

[lucianbr]

I feel that "don't lie, just omit the truth" totally misses the point. It's "rules lawyering", not being an adult as the author seems to envision it. At least that's my reading.

[bityard]

"Don't lie, just omit the truth" is not even close to what I said. (It could be argued that putting words in someone's mouth is a form of lying...)

If you ask me for some information that I don't want to share and I say I don't want to answer that, or it's not important, that is not lying by omission. Or lying at all. That's me protecting my privacy. Giving an incorrect or misleading answer instead would be lying.

[lucianbr]

Yes yes, you are very knowledgeable about the precise rules of what is lying and what is not. I tip my hat to you.

[Aurornis]

> Any kind of negotiation comes to mind, where it might be best to not show your hand completely.

There’s a big difference between lying and not revealing information that works against you.

In (American) courtroom terms it’s the difference between perjury or invoking the 5th amendment.

Some people feel obligated to provide an answer when asked a question, rather than tactfully declining to answer or changing the subject. It stems from a desire to be polite or please the other party. Ironically this desire to please or be polite leads those people to tell lies because they feel like they won’t get caught.

Skilled negotiators can be very good at identifying when someone is lying. Far more than the average person would guess. I did hundreds or thousands of interviews and after a while many lies stuck out like a sore thumb. I have no doubt that some people slipped lies past me, but most often when I had an inkling someone was lying I could confirm they were lying with some further questions or basic research online.

Once that trust is lost, everything is in question.

[smitty1e]

One is always selecting from a subset of the available information is any conversation.

Maybe the point could be elaborated "never mislead".

As a parent, while I don't want my children to grow up in a shoebox, I also don't want them awash in the hedonistic filth of our day, either.

So I tell them "form follows function" and express the importance of actual marriage, not the modern variations.

[richardw]

My personal mantra for these things is that life is simple [1] when you have only one principle. It gets much harder when you have to balance two or more principles.

It’s still better to have the principles than not have them, just keep balance in mind.

[1] for you, that is. People who don’t share your principles might not like your choices and you might be making their life difficult with your lack of balance. See religion, politics, etc.

[roxolotl]

Given the context of the list I suspect they don’t mean any of them quite as strictly as you’re taking it. Of course there are situations where lying is actually is morally correct. However I do think that many situations where one is tempted to lie simply omitting information is equally effective, or even more so as you don’t have to worry about being caught in the lie.

[null-a]

I've seen a version that adds "lies of omission are sometimes exempt":

https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Jan-21.html

[wutwutwat]

Don’t lie, unless you sometimes have to lie.

Totally tracks

[wutwutwat]

Negotiations are made because each party is trying to gain as much as possible while losing as little as possible. In order for that to happen each side lies about their standing, their offer, their range, and uses a bunch of dishonest and manipulative tactics to reach an agreement.

If all parties were honest then a negotiation wouldn’t need to take place.