[throwing_away]

It's not unreasonable to see the situation as "Then they came for the Jews, and the administration finally deported the people who were coming for the Jews".

The president's literal argument for doing it is that the activist groups are coming for all of American life.

I'm not a big fan of either side's rhetoric, but clearly the horseshoe has become a ring.

[ath3nd]

> I'm not a big fan of either side's rhetoric, but clearly the horseshoe has become a ring.

Either side? Tell me which "side" does that sound like?

- hostility towards non traditional sexuality

- immigration being used as the scapegoat for economic problems

- strong feeling of national exceptionalism

- assault on women's productivity rights

- politicizing of science

- deportation for political reasons

- "Roman" salutes

It brings parallels with some things happening in Europe some time ago.

> activist groups are coming for all of American life.

I wonder who's actually going for all of American life though. Let's take Birthright citizenship, which has been established in 1868. Is that American life enough for you?

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

And guess who goes against this American way of life value? An orange grandpa married to an immigrant. You really can't make this up.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/14/nx-s1-5327552/trump-takes-bir...

[throwing_away]

> Either side? Tell me which "side" does that sound like?

Up until you got to the "Roman" salutes, it sounded like both sides in the US.

Or rather, it will sound like whichever side you aren't. That's the point.

But using "Then they came for the Jews" when you're discussing deportation of these particular people is perhaps a new level of absurdity in the discourse.

[mmooss]

> "Roman" salutes, it sounded like both sides in the US.

The liberals / Dems can barely organize a picnic. They can't agree on anything. There is no Fox News, there is nobody they bow down to. The obsequiousness to Trump is unprecendented.

[throwing_away]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2025/04/04/picnic-before...

[brandonmenc]

> Let's take Birthright citizenship, which has been established in 1868. Is that American life enough for you?

Birthright citizenship was to ensure freed slaves could not be denied citizenship.

It's served its purpose and we can repeal it and join the vast majority of nations that don't have this pathway.

[Braxton1980]

And the 2nd amendment was for an armed milita to protect the country.

[mmooss]

If you want to repeal it, then convince your fellow citizens to do that. The president can't do it.

[brandonmenc]

Someone mentioned the 2nd Amendment in this thread.

If a president stretched the limits of executive power to go after guns, half of the country would cheer for it.

The Constitution is a living document, and the line is constantly pushed back and forth on its interpretation and enforcement.

[mmooss]

> If a president stretched the limits of executive power to go after guns, half of the country would cheer for it.

That's speculation about specuation about an undefined interpretation. We are bounded by law, including by the Constitution.

> The Constitution is a living document, and the line is constantly pushed back and forth on its interpretation and enforcement.

There is variation in interpretation, but within bounds. If you want to eliminate Constitutional gun rights, you would need to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

[SauciestGNU]

Ok, but if we want to repeal it there's a defined process for that. The president doesn't just get to declare people's citizenship invalid, that's Nazi shit. That's why I call Trump and everyone who tacitly or explicitly supports him a Nazi. He's trying to rule by executive fiat to enforce white nationalism.

[mmooss]

It's not at all equivalent.

> The president's literal argument for doing it is that the activist groups are coming for all of American life.

What is American life? Why can't people criticize whatever they want - that is American life.

> "Then they came for the Jews, and the administration finally deported the people who were coming for the Jews"

The vast majority of antisemitism is on the right. The administration does nothing about it (and supports and legitimizes much of it).

Also, the Jews will be next. By attacking critics of Judaism, they are entrapping Jewish people (and others) in legitimzing this oppression, and in making themselves into targets of hate. Then when the white supremecists turn on them, and say Jews are conspiring to control American, what will these Jewish supporters of arrests, oppression, and deportations say?

[subscribed]

But Zionism is not Judaism.

Most of the pro-Palestine or anti-Zionist content I see is denouncing Israeli war crimes and genocide. No one is bashing Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.

Also a lot of this comes from the Jews (who are then attacked for being confused or..... antisemitic)

We're not at the point of people hunting Jews because they're Jews. We are at the point when opposing targeting/killing medics, press, children or hospitals may result in being kidnapped from the street and either locked up without charges or trafficked to the torture camp.

I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology.

[KingMob]

Got called a "self-hating Jew" for the first time on Mastodon a year ago, for criticizing Israel.

Unfortunately for those of us in the diaspora, Israel has really muddied the waters by convincing people that anti-Israel = antisemitism, because it's given real antisemites cover. E.g., like when the ADL came to Musk's defense after his Nazi salute because he officially supported Israel.

[nahuel0x]

Almost all far-right / neo-nazis groups with a long (real) antisemitism trajectory like the ones Elon Musk supports are now pro-Israel and pro-Gaza genocide. Sounds weird, but it makes total sense, as:

- The Zionist project is an ethno-state, just like those groups want for their countries. This also echoes the Zionist-nazi collaborations before WWII to move jewish population out of Germany to Palestine.

- Israel works as an spearhead of the global imperialism configuration, if you support imperialism on the Middle East -as those groups and their bourgeoisie do- you must support Israel.

- European neo-nazi groups are militant against immigration, and a big chunk of that immigration to their countries is muslim, so they are more than open to the Israel narratives against the muslim world... even the most extremist ones that de-humanizes Gaza children ("those children are future terrorists").

[ath3nd]

> I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology.

It's good that you brought this up!

It's a common right-wing tactic to conflate themselves with the purest version of something that is highly regarded and hide behind it. E.g the Nazis conflated themselves with "pure" Germanness, the fascists in Italy conflated themselves with "pure" Italianness, the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness. Then it naturally follows that if you attack Israel's genocide of the people in Palestine, you are attacking Judaism/Jewishness. If you question Netanyahu's genocidal ultra-supremacist ideology (which many Holocaust survivors, Jewish themselves, have done repeatedly), you are anti-Jewish, and so on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs

A similar thing is happening in the US where the current administration is trying to position itself as America-first, so naturally any critique on them must be anti-American, right? You will find that this playbook is always the same. First will be immigrants, then non-traditional sexual orientations and women's reproductive rights, then the press and universities and finally just whoever they feel like.

Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.

[mmooss]

> Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.

That's taking the 'in the long run' analysis to an extreme.

In WWII, after hundreds of millions died - including over 10 million murdered by the hate-filled - major parts of the world were devestated, and the free world united in a massive war, the hate-fueled were stopped. They didn't implode.

The idea that they will implode is a common fantasy that you (and many others) won't have to do anthing, face their fears, fight an uncertain fight. If you really believed they would implode, the fight would be certain. They won't stop until you stop them.

[ath3nd]

> They won't stop until you stop them.

Amen!

[weatherlite]

> the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness

And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazis.

[ath3nd]

> And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazi

Nazism and Zionism are both ultra-right-wing nationalistic ideologies. The conflation doesn't stop on the surface though, but it runs deep in the actions of the two states: The Nazi state during WW2, and the Israeli state:

1. Dehumanizing of "the enemy"

A) Israel dehumanizing Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestin...

B) Nazis dehumanizing Jews: https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propa...

2. Using war crimes like starvation to "get rid of the enemy":

A) Israel starving Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine

B) Nazis starving Jews: https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan

3. Detention camps and torture

A) Israel detaining and torturing Palestinians: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/...

B) Nazis detaining and torturing Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

[weatherlite]

Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it. Thanks for all the links I read each and every one of them , especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that.

[aprilthird2021]

> The president's literal argument for doing it is that the activist groups are coming for all of American life.

American life is defined by the acceptance of dissent and the encouragement of even distasteful free speech. If that's not American, what even is American?

[KingMob]

Horseshoe theory is one of those idiotic centrist oversimplifications that pretends extremist differences don't matter.

It's like watching the rebels and the Empire shoot at each other, and saying "There's no difference, because they're both violent."