[subscribed]

But Zionism is not Judaism.

Most of the pro-Palestine or anti-Zionist content I see is denouncing Israeli war crimes and genocide. No one is bashing Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.

Also a lot of this comes from the Jews (who are then attacked for being confused or..... antisemitic)

We're not at the point of people hunting Jews because they're Jews. We are at the point when opposing targeting/killing medics, press, children or hospitals may result in being kidnapped from the street and either locked up without charges or trafficked to the torture camp.

I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology.

[KingMob]

Got called a "self-hating Jew" for the first time on Mastodon a year ago, for criticizing Israel.

Unfortunately for those of us in the diaspora, Israel has really muddied the waters by convincing people that anti-Israel = antisemitism, because it's given real antisemites cover. E.g., like when the ADL came to Musk's defense after his Nazi salute because he officially supported Israel.

[nahuel0x]

Almost all far-right / neo-nazis groups with a long (real) antisemitism trajectory like the ones Elon Musk supports are now pro-Israel and pro-Gaza genocide. Sounds weird, but it makes total sense, as:

- The Zionist project is an ethno-state, just like those groups want for their countries. This also echoes the Zionist-nazi collaborations before WWII to move jewish population out of Germany to Palestine.

- Israel works as an spearhead of the global imperialism configuration, if you support imperialism on the Middle East -as those groups and their bourgeoisie do- you must support Israel.

- European neo-nazi groups are militant against immigration, and a big chunk of that immigration to their countries is muslim, so they are more than open to the Israel narratives against the muslim world... even the most extremist ones that de-humanizes Gaza children ("those children are future terrorists").

[ath3nd]

> I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology.

It's good that you brought this up!

It's a common right-wing tactic to conflate themselves with the purest version of something that is highly regarded and hide behind it. E.g the Nazis conflated themselves with "pure" Germanness, the fascists in Italy conflated themselves with "pure" Italianness, the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness. Then it naturally follows that if you attack Israel's genocide of the people in Palestine, you are attacking Judaism/Jewishness. If you question Netanyahu's genocidal ultra-supremacist ideology (which many Holocaust survivors, Jewish themselves, have done repeatedly), you are anti-Jewish, and so on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs

A similar thing is happening in the US where the current administration is trying to position itself as America-first, so naturally any critique on them must be anti-American, right? You will find that this playbook is always the same. First will be immigrants, then non-traditional sexual orientations and women's reproductive rights, then the press and universities and finally just whoever they feel like.

Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.

[mmooss]

> Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.

That's taking the 'in the long run' analysis to an extreme.

In WWII, after hundreds of millions died - including over 10 million murdered by the hate-filled - major parts of the world were devestated, and the free world united in a massive war, the hate-fueled were stopped. They didn't implode.

The idea that they will implode is a common fantasy that you (and many others) won't have to do anthing, face their fears, fight an uncertain fight. If you really believed they would implode, the fight would be certain. They won't stop until you stop them.

[ath3nd]

> They won't stop until you stop them.

Amen!

[weatherlite]

> the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness

And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazis.

[ath3nd]

> And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazi

Nazism and Zionism are both ultra-right-wing nationalistic ideologies. The conflation doesn't stop on the surface though, but it runs deep in the actions of the two states: The Nazi state during WW2, and the Israeli state:

1. Dehumanizing of "the enemy"

A) Israel dehumanizing Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestin...

B) Nazis dehumanizing Jews: https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propa...

2. Using war crimes like starvation to "get rid of the enemy":

A) Israel starving Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine

B) Nazis starving Jews: https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan

3. Detention camps and torture

A) Israel detaining and torturing Palestinians: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/...

B) Nazis detaining and torturing Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

[weatherlite]

Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it. Thanks for all the links I read each and every one of them , especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that.

[ath3nd]

> especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that.

Glad to have helped! Here is a quiz to see if you can spot the differences between a Zionist and a Nazi: https://zionism.wtf/

By the ways, nowadays it's called a "detention camp":

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-tei...

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn7vje365rno

But the torture is still torture. Also, this (satirical?) article by the Onion somehow (tragi)comically seems super relevant:

https://theonion.com/historians-quibbling-over-exact-definit...

I am sure I won't hear the end of it how the torture concentration camp of the Nazis is completely different from the much more civilized and completely different torture detention camp of the Israelis. Israelis' of course, have a high regard for their prisoners' well being, especially considering they call them "animals": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr24GcCDgyM

> Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it

I probably shouldn't bite, but here it goes: Here are some stats even before the current war started.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-cas...

From 2008 to 2020, the death toll is:

- 251 Israeli

- 5590 Palestinians

Does this seem like a fair exchange, cause it seems like 22x higher death toll on one side?

And the current death toll can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co...

- 9,901–10,239 Israeli

- 104,701–110,887 Palestinians

Does this look like a fair exchange?

I am sure when some Nazis were killed by the French Resistance, somebody Nazi apologist was saying: "see, French are also bad, because they are killing the poor Germans". However, there is a very important distinction:

Palestinians are not the ones stopping humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-defense-mi...), nor the ones shooting medics and ambulances (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBouTY-45c), nor the ones repeatedly blowing up hospitals (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr7l123zy5o) all 100% war crimes.

And nobody says Hamas are the good guys: both the leaders of Hamas and Netanyahu and his genocidal posse are sought to be trialed by the ICC for war crimes (https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu).

But the parallels between Zionism and Nazism are so obvious, that they even have a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and...

I am happy to provide you a summary of the parallels:

- War crimes and crimes against humanity both by Nazis and by the Israeli state

- Dehumanizing the enemy both by the Nazis and by the Israeli state

- Withholding aid and using hunger as a weapon both by the Nazis and by the Israeli state

- Doing an ethnic cleansing (https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/tragedy-fore...) both by the Nazis during WW2 and the Israeli state

- Both are far-right ideologies based on some feeling of superiority (racial or national/religious)

I mean, yeah, there are differences in the "flavor", like fascism in Italy was different from Nazism in Germany and is different than the contemporary genocidal Zionism by the Palestinian state, but the similarities are far more than the small differences.

[weatherlite]

> And the current death toll can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co...

- 9,901–10,239 Israeli

- 104,701–110,887 Palestinians

Not sure what "fair exchange" would mean here. It looks like

a) A war / protracted conflict , not some kind of one sided genocide. Jews haven't killed thousands of Germans or tried to bring down the German state. Also, if there is one side that is sympathetic to Nazi ideology it is actually historically the Palestinian side (see Mufti relations with Hitler and his contributions to the final solution).

b) One side is clearly stronger than the other side (however, the weak side is doing everything it can to bring the casaulties numbers up. We know Hamas is doing this).

Israel is not going to try get more Israelis killed just so progressives become happier.