[motorest]

> I'm not sure what to think. Ukraine can't militarily defeat russia or reclaim its lost territory, (...)

Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country?

> and as long as it continues to try to do so, there will be war and the world will be less stable.

All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave.

Ultimately, worst case scenario Ukraine can simply keep Russian in a war of attrition while eating away at it's economic base.

Russia is already sending it's soldiers with crutches riding donkeys into battle. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources.

> But if a line is not drawn against russia, I think we have every reason to believe putin will continue to conquer more land over time.

[arandomusername]

> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country?

Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with Russia) and people - the people in currently occupied Ukraine aren't as against Russia as those in Afghanistan may be. Even now, we don't really see much of sabotage.

> All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave.

And how are you going to do that? Russia has been gaining land. Currently, Russia is winning.

> Ultimately, worst case scenario Ukraine can simply keep Russian in a war of attrition while eating away at it's economic base.

While losing hundred of thousands of young men and decimating their population. Russia has more men. They can stand a war of attrition a lot longer - and they value soldier's lives less than we do in the west.

> Russia is already sending it's soldiers with crutches riding donkeys into battle. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources.

Similarly, Ukraine is kidnapping people on the streets to send them to the front lines.

[ponector]

> Russia has more men This is true in general. But not true for soldiers. They have more so many men willing to fight in Ukraine. If they have so many men - why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Or Africans?

You simply echo Russia Today narratives.

[codedokode]

> why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia

Isn't it better for Russia if Koreans die instead of Russians? It looks rational (but sad for Koreans dying in a war on the other side of the globe).

[ponector]

From Russian perspective it doesn't matter because they value Korean life the same: zero. Koreans are expensive, though. God knows what putin is trading for their troops. Probably rocket and nuclear technologies.

From military perspective Koreans are useless cannon fodder for to the language barrier and unaware of modern combat full with FPV drones.

[arandomusername]

I'm not sure of the accuracy of this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I did hear that rocket and nuclear technology is indeed part of the deal - terrifying. NK will also provide artillery shells.

> From military perspective Koreans are useless cannon fodder

Well, that's the soviet doctrine. Men are useless cannon fodder. It does give the NK the chance to catch up on modern combat.

[arandomusername]

and maybe you echo reddit too much, or some biased Ukrainian news site. It is no secret that Russia has more fighting men. It's just logical, since they have a significantly higher population.

Ukraine has so many men willing to fight that they have to kidnap them on the streets?

There's Korean soldiers fighting in Kursk only, as far as I'm aware. None in Ukraine. It's free man power for Russia. Both sides have merceneries from Africa and South America, among others.

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2025/0...

> Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025

vs

> Equipped but not staffed: Ukraine’s challenge for 2025

[ponector]

>Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025

Equipped with golf carts, motorcycles and donkeys?

Staffed with wounded men. There been many cases when russians force people on crutches advance into meat wave assault.

Kidnaping people from streets - that is a Russian narrative as well. Forced mobilization - sure that happens at war.

When police arrests someone - do you call it kidnap as well?

[arandomusername]

Do you consider iiss to be an unreliable source?

How are Russians gaining territory with gold carts, motorcycles and donkeys? How are those wounded men overwhelming the Ukrainian side?

Forcefully taking someone and sending them to the frontline, I consider that kidnapping yes. I believe forced mobilization to be immoral.

Can you please provide some reliable source that shows Ukraine having more manpower than Russia?

[DennisP]

They are not overwhelming the Ukrainian side. They are making very slow, grinding advances, and taking massive casualties in the process. Between five and ten times as many as the Ukrainian casualties, because this has turned into a war that heavily favors defense.

[skissane]

> And how are you going to do that? Russia has been gaining land. Currently, Russia is winning.

Winning, but winning very slowly. Unless Ukraine collapses, Russian victory is likely years away (depending of course on what Russia decides to consider “victory”)

Although Ukraine is outnumbered, the fact they are mostly playing defence not offence gives them an advantage

If Ukraine drags this out for long enough, there is the possibility Russia may lose its patience with the war before Ukraine does, and Ukraine may suddenly gain the upper hand. If Trump forces Ukraine into a peace deal in which Russia gets most of what it wants, that won’t happen

[arandomusername]

Russia controls large portions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson Oblasts. I imagine walking away with those areas would be a huge victory for them.

How long can Ukraine drag this out? They are suffering manpower issues more than Russia. I don't think it's likely that Russia will lose its patience before Ukraine. I wish, but I don't see it. Their economy is somewhat dependent on their military-industrial complex.

Is this the goal? To slowly lose land and lives to Russia, in hopes that they get bored, or that Ukrainians magically get a wonder weapon?

[skissane]

I think the Ukrainian hope is the war eventually becomes so unpopular in Russia that it endangers Putin’s rule. Then political instability strikes Moscow - Putin is removed in a coup or assassinated - and faced with the chaos in Moscow, Russian battlefield morale collapses, frontline troops are withdrawn to Moscow to fight over who is Putin’s successor, etc - suddenly Ukrainian troops massively advance

How plausible is that scenario? I don’t know. It isn’t impossible. More likely to happen in a few years time (assuming the war lasts that long). Probably not happening this year, but one never knows - who predicted Prigozhin‘s abortive coup in June 2023? Who knows if or when such an event might happen again - maybe next time more successfully?

Trump’s recent moves arguably reduce the odds of such a development by increasing Russian perceptions that the war is likely to be resolved on terms they’ll find favourable. However, Trump is fickle, and it isn’t impossible that with time he’ll move to a position the Russians will find less encouraging (it isn’t guaranteed, of course)

[arandomusername]

Prigozhin's "coup" was probably the closest thing to it. Unfortunately I do not share your optimism in here - Putin planted him self well and surrounded himself by loyal men.

Continuing to send men to die in a losing battle without an actual plan, hoping that the opponent's leadership falls, seems like an awful idea to me. It gives me similar vibes to "our scientists are on the verge of creating a wonder weapon" that is often propagated on losing sides, e.g Germany in WW2.

[libertine]

It's hard to see that as a huge victory at the cost of more than 900.00p casualties for something Russia has plenty of - land.

Also economic collapse (high inflation, high interest rates, and no industry).

Ukraine just needs to continue to chip away at them, the bigger they are, the bigger the fall, and Russians aren't paying the price for this blunder yet.

[arandomusername]

Not all land is created equally.

Russia doesn't really value the lives of men.

Been waiting for that economic collapse for 3 years. How many more Ukrainian men must die before we get it? How many more are you okay with dying?

[motorest]

> Been waiting for that economic collapse for 3 years. How many more Ukrainian men must die before we get it? How many more are you okay with dying?

What possibly leads you to believe that Ukraine capitulating will end Russia's push to kill Ukrainians? Russia is engaging in a massive ethnic cleansing campaign, as documented in cases such as Bucha. Do you honestly believe that will stop if Ukraine surrendered as Trump is demanding them to?

Try to think about it: why do you think Zelenski is so adamant in demanding security guarantees?

[Aeolun]

Collective defense was always an option. It's not like anyone has the appetite for that, but it's not hard as such to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

[ponector]

It's not that hard and even no troops required. Send more weapons without restrictions to use them against Russians, tight real sanctions and they will be defeated

[arandomusername]

that's how you get nukes in Cuba

[collingreen]

Let me respond with some equally flippant, reductive text.

First, they came for Ukraine and we did nothing...

[ponector]

It's not like that.

First russians came for Ichkeria and I did nothing because I'm not a Chechen. Then russians came for Georgia and I did nothing because I'm not a Georgian. Then they came for Ukraine...

[arandomusername]

Nope. Majority of Europeans and Americans do not want to go and fight for Ukraine. Especially when there's a thread of nuclear war.

[motorest]

We don't need to fight. We only need to hand over to Ukraine the weapons they have been asking for since 2022. A few Taurus with the gloves off and Ukraine instantly gets far closer to prevent Russia from continuing their whole war effort.

[arandomusername]

> Scholz Says Germans Would Need To Deploy With Taurus Missiles

https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-situation-report-s...

[dlahoda]

> Ukraine is kidnapping people on the streets to send them to the front lines.

may you expand on this?

[arandomusername]

There are many videos on twitter if you'd like to see recorded examples.

But basically, TCC is the recruitment office in Ukraine, and they will pull up in unmarked vans and grab and force them into a van.

Here's an article about it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/ukrainian-...

A decent video example (ignore the text): https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1896019613198270859 - there's many more.

It's absolutely terrifying for Ukrainian men.

[theshackleford]

> It's absolutely terrifying for Ukrainian men.

I'ts no less terrifying for Russian men when the goons show up to take you away I assure you.

Sadly my family in Russia has been impacted by this, not in being conscripted forcefully themselves, but needing to destroy their own livelyhoods so that it is not possible for them to facilitate the the sending of others to the front line.

[libertine]

Those videos are amplified greatly by Russian propaganda bots, one thing to put them in check is to ask how many hundreds of thousands of young Russian men fled and climbed through walls once the mobilization was announced by the regime.

I think it was 1.000.000+ men lmao

Now that's trying to escape war. In every war there's people avoiding conscription, and Russians do it by orders or magnitude we probably haven't seen on record.

[arandomusername]

Those videos are amplified by russian bots, but it doesn't make them any less true. A lot of Russian men did flee, but they no longer conscript, while Ukraine still does. And Ukraine forces men into vans to send them to the frontlines. Russia just keeps increasing the pay.

Ukraine had to close borders to men because so many were trying to flee. Millions of Ukrainians sought refuge throughout Europe.

[mopsi]

> And Ukraine forces men into vans to send them to the frontlines. Russia just keeps increasing the pay.

It would be honest of you to mention the flood of videos on Russian social media showing crippled Russian soldiers on crutches dragged into trucks, driven to the frontline, and forced to attack. Some of them are featured here: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/22/europe/russia-wounded-tro... And this is how they end up, absolutely incredible sight, one "attacking" on crutches, the other next to him crawling on all fours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQcftiP3jQ

I have not seen anything this wild on the Ukrainian side.

[libertine]

> Those videos are amplified by russian bots, but it doesn't make them any less true.

I never said they ain't true, as I said - not everyone wants to be in a war, and this happens literally in every war. I just pointed out that in the case of Russia it occurred in an unprecedented manner, while what happens in Ukraine is what's more in line with war.

> A lot of Russian men did flee, but they no longer conscript, while Ukraine still does.

Conscription would probably lead to the final collapse of the Russian economy, they are resorting to the misery of the population which are joining the war with entrepreneurial ambitions (getting well paid... which is a sad event given the high interest rates and inflation). Russia hasn't declared war, and probably never will as that would be a threat to the regime.

> Ukraine had to close borders to men because so many were trying to flee. Millions of Ukrainians sought refuge throughout Europe.

Like in any country being invaded with Martial Law in place.

[rightbyte]

It is quite astonishing there isn't more critique of those methods. That in combination with closing the border for men.

It is very authoritarian.

[spaethnl]

What you are saying is Russian propaganda.

Nearly every country that has been attacked has forced conscription. The US did during WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and we weren't even attacked in 3 of those.

Were we authoritarian then?

[arandomusername]

Calling everything that doesn't paint Ukraine in a good light "Russian propaganda" is tiring.

Any forced conscription is immoral. Do you think forcing American men to go and die in Vietnam was morally just?

[codedokode]

> sending it's soldiers with crutches riding donkeys

What would you use to transport items through the forest for example?

[mopsi]

The need to transport items through forests comes from the new unjammable wire-guided drones. Anything on roads within 5+ kilometers of the frontline is easily spotted and destroyed.