[libertine]

> Those videos are amplified by russian bots, but it doesn't make them any less true.

I never said they ain't true, as I said - not everyone wants to be in a war, and this happens literally in every war. I just pointed out that in the case of Russia it occurred in an unprecedented manner, while what happens in Ukraine is what's more in line with war.

> A lot of Russian men did flee, but they no longer conscript, while Ukraine still does.

Conscription would probably lead to the final collapse of the Russian economy, they are resorting to the misery of the population which are joining the war with entrepreneurial ambitions (getting well paid... which is a sad event given the high interest rates and inflation). Russia hasn't declared war, and probably never will as that would be a threat to the regime.

> Ukraine had to close borders to men because so many were trying to flee. Millions of Ukrainians sought refuge throughout Europe.

Like in any country being invaded with Martial Law in place.

[arandomusername]

Ukrainian bots amplify pro-Ukrainian narratives, NATO bots amplify pro-NATO narratives, Russian bots amplify pro-Russian narratives. Every country participates in propaganda.

> I just pointed out that in the case of Russia it occurred in an unprecedented manner, while what happens in Ukraine is what's more in line with war.

Russia did not kidnap man from the streets to force to the frontline, at least not that I'm aware of, and certainly not in the numbers that Ukraine does. Conscription happens in wars, but forcing men off the street to go to the frontline?

> Conscription would probably lead to the final collapse of the Russian economy

I've been hearing that Russian's economy is on the brink of collapse for the last three years. It's awful compared to the West, but they have transitioned into war-fueled economy well, and are still doing well enough despite the war and all the sanctions.

> Like in any country being invaded with Martial Law in place.

So same like Russia? Men want to flee from getting conscripted.

[mopsi]

  In a coordinated operation, Russian authorities conducted raids on three of Moscow’s largest and most popular nightclubs on Friday night, detaining hundreds of men and taking them to military conscription offices.

  According to witnesses, dozens of police vehicles, including paddy wagons, lined up outside the nightclubs as enforcement personnel, accompanied by police K9 units, systematically entered the establishments. Clubgoers described the scene as chaotic, with people being escorted out in groups. The authorities focused their efforts on male patrons, detaining many of them and subsequently transporting them to local military conscription offices. Women, on the other hand, were eventually released after their passports were photographed.

  One attendee, who wished to remain anonymous, described the atmosphere inside as tense and surreal. “It was like nothing I’ve ever experienced. They came in and started checking IDs, taking the men away without much explanation. The music stopped, and everyone just froze,” the witness said.

Video from the raid: https://www.threads.net/@opium_hum/post/DDANoVHsojO

[arandomusername]

Any trustworthy source that verifies those men are sent to military conscription offices?

I would guess that the video is just another crackdown on LGBTQ, as they have been doing: https://apnews.com/article/russia-lgbtq-crackdown-nightclub-...

[mopsi]

One of the issued draft notices: https://t.me/ostorozhno_novosti/31737

Most of such stories are on Telegram, another example: https://t.me/akaloy/7128

Human rights activists advise young men to live somewhere else than their official address and to avoid public transportation, because raids at metro stations are commonplace, as the local news report:

  After the beginning of the autumn call, the police regularly conduct raids in which deviators are identified from military service. Security forces come to the hostels for migrants and warehouses in Moscow and the region, as well as check passengers in the subway. Over the past day, the police conducted raids near the metro station “Electrozavodsk”, and also presented 26 subpoenas to the army in the Krasnogorsk hostel.

Auto-translated from: https://msk1.ru/text/incidents/2024/11/01/74285744/

[libertine]

> Ukrainian bots amplify pro-Ukrainian narratives, NATO bots amplify pro-NATO narratives, Russian bots amplify pro-Russian narratives. Every country participates in propaganda.

Yeah, except Russian propaganda is composed mainly by lies (truth be told, terrible lies that would only work in people with very poor cognitive capacity).

> Russia did not kidnap man from the streets to force to the frontline, at least not that I'm aware of, and certainly not in the numbers that Ukraine does. Conscription happens in wars, but forcing men off the street to go to the frontline?

Another lie.

Not only they kidnaped men, they kidnapped foreign workers.[0]

[0]https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly6ve2x72xo

> So same like Russia? Men want to flee from getting conscripted.

Oh please do show the records of hundreds of thousands of men fleeing a country just upon the announcement of mobilization, here's one example of what happened just at the border with Georgia (Russia is a big place): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzv5fM1LWXk

[arandomusername]

> Not only they kidnaped men, they kidnapped foreign workers.[0]

From your source:

> were lured by agents with the promise of money and jobs, sometimes as "helpers" in the Russian army.

So where's the kidnapping? Seems like you lie just as much as this "russian propaganda". There is no kidnapping.

> Oh please do show the records of hundreds of thousands of men fleeing a country just upon the announcement of mobilization

How about the millions in Europe? I see Ukrainian men everyday in my country.

> In an analysis of figures from EU statistics agency Eurostat in November, BBC Ukrainian found that some 768,000 Ukrainian men aged 18-64 had left the country for the EU alone since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67787173

[libertine]

> So where's the kidnapping?

It doesn't look good when you start arguing about semantics when English is not your main language, so let me help you here: When you take someone against their will, it's called kidnapping.

Here's the definition:kidnapping, criminal offense consisting of the unlawful taking and carrying away of a person by force or fraud or the unlawful seizure and detention of a person against his will.[0]

So clearly they were kidnapped and held by force, some were lured which is also kidnapping by definition, and it's well known by the way, another example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64582985

So not only are you lying, you're doubling down spreading misinformation, and you're accusing others of providing you with sources of being liars.

[0]https://www.britannica.com/topic/kidnapping

> How about the millions in Europe? I see Ukrainian men everyday in my country.

You're talking about refugees, of which 2 thirds are women and children?[0] Then you refer to millions of men in Europe, showing a 768.000 figure.

https://unric.org/en/ukraine-over-6-million-refugees-spread-...

[arandomusername]

In my original post, I did say kidnapping from the street. Luring them in with promises or fear of deportation isn't exactly that - but semantics. I got carried away, I do consider that morally wrong just like the Ukrainian ones. I will concede and agree with you that Russians are kidnapping. I don't think anyone should be pressured or forced to the frontline like that. Ukrainian, Russian, or otherwise.

> You're talking about refugees, of which 2 thirds are women and children?[0] Then you refer to millions of men in Europe, showing a 768.000 figure.

Well, if 2/3 are women out of 6 million then 2 million would be men. But semantics, we can confirm that theres atleast 768k according to Eurostat. Which I think satisfies your claim: (somewhat, unless you get picky about the "upon the announcement of mobilization")

> Oh please do show the records of hundreds of thousands of men fleeing a country just upon the announcement of mobilization