[mmastrac]

"Emotional support networks among men shrink by 50% between the ages of 30 and 90, reflecting an average decrease from two to one emotional support providers"

Or, to rephrase,

"Men grow up with an average of two emotional support providers and lose one in mid to late adulthood"

[cauliflower2718]

Is this to be interpreted as most men have two parents, and in adulthood one of them dies?

Or, men have a parent they are close with plus a spouse, and then the parent dies?

[seneca]

I interpreted it as the latter being the most common pattern. I'm sure it differs fairly widely though.

[jfengel]

Any idea how many women have?

The form of this study was specific to men and very long-running, so I don't know where you'd get comparable data. Still, it would be interesting to take a stab at it. Is it 2? 1? 10?

[bitwize]

Unlike men, women tend seek out emotional support networks as a matter of course. There's probably some reduction as they age, but it's probably from like, the entire glee club to their husband, kids, five or six girls they keep up with from high school and the neighbor lady. A particularly gregarious woman like my wife can grow her support network. This is definitely an area meriting more research.

[kelseyfrog]

As a trans women, I have a unique perspective on how gender impacts social relations having lived life in each of the two worlds.

Like commenters above mention, emotional support is table stakes in friendship among women. It is a kinder, gentler world - the kind of world you perhaps remember growing up in. That world still exists, but it's typically not accessible to men once they reach adulthood.

How could men access the world of emotional support? By disassociating the idea of gender and emotional support. Growing up in the 90s and 2000s, I remember emotional vulnerability being associated with homosexuality - it was "gay" for men to be emotionally vulnerable with eachother, typically leaving men with women[spouses] or family members as their only source of emotional support. The way out is decouple these two things, to un-"gay" emotional vulnerability between men.

What does it look like? Checking in on friends, learning to open up yourself, increasing emotional intelligence, learning how to hold space and reflectively listen. Not trying to solve people's problems when what they want is to be heard. All of these skills and norms exist within feminine spaces as a matter of course and when folks say "putting in the work" it means learning to employ these things.

It means that being emotionally vulnerable doesn't imply a sexual advancement. It means enforcing that as a reality.

[lazide]

Personally, I’ve also seen those emotional support networks used to destroy and manipulate women within them by other women within them.

And to target the men ‘attached’ through the women within those networks.

Under the guise of emotional support.

[kelseyfrog]

Setting healthy boundaries is usually the antidote to manipulation and sometimes that entails no longer engaging with that person or group.

I'm curious to hear more about your story. It sounds full of valuable lessons.

[lazide]

The challenge I’ve seen, is women’s groups tend to not have/allow boundaries. At least in a ‘you can’t say no’ type of way. Lying/hiding stuff is of course pervasive, as a defense. It’s a really common pattern. ‘Mean girls’, ‘gossip group’, etc.

In many, it’s typical to discuss everything from the sex habits of them and their partners (in excruciating detail), their own and others affairs, to every embarrassing detail of their kids lives. It often seems to be a competition to see who can get the most exciting ‘tea’ out of each other.

In my experience, having indirectly seen/overheard many of these discussions, most men would be horrified if they knew what was really going on.

It happens in some men’s groups, but is much, much rarer.

As for my story - I’ve seen quite a few.

Office politics where a senior woman leader was essentially running a ‘sex for leverage’ campaign against all the men (and a couple women) in the group, using the women in the group as ‘bait’.

A church where the pastor got convicted of child molestation, but where the community insisted he be forgiven (after getting out), and he was indeed reinstated - while another part of the congregation had their entire family driven from the group (and harassed socially in the community for years) because the father divorced his spouse because of infidelity and physically abusive behaviors.

Oh, and the classic ‘ex wives club’ stalking and harassing an ex, and any new wife - and manipulating her into ruining herself and joining the club.

I’ve seen all these play out first hand, and they are just a drop in the bucket. I’ve ceased to be amazed at the cruelty often demonstrated.

Abusive men tend to work a bit differently, so their setups often look more directly hierarchical and have less information sharing going on. They tend to operate more off secrecy and/or threats of explicit violence, than manipulation.

But I’ve seen a few (rare) instances of similar setups. People can be awesome. People can be terrible.

[clockworksoul]

That's a very valuable insight. Thank you.

[watwut]

What is emotional vulnerability?

[kelseyfrog]

It's a state of being emotionally exposed in way that includes uncertainty. Like sharing emotions when you're unsure how the other person will respond. In this case, it might mean opening up more to an acquaintance as a way to develop a friendship but being unsure how they would receive that or reciprocate.

[n4r9]

It's simmilar to physical vulnerability but with emotions. Displaying emotions in such a way that someone could - if they were so inclined - emotionally exploit and attack you. For example, opening up about your greatest fears can open you up to ridicule or someone pranking you.

[pessimizer]

Female stereotyping.

[meiraleal]

[flagged]

[Spivak]

I don't feel very exceptional in terms of my social network among my peers and I would say probably 20-25. I think it mostly comes from emotional support being pretty much table stakes for female friendships. I feel like most "biological" explanations are bunk but like if you're gonna be friends you're gonna be friends when you're on your period and going through it.

[iterance]

Anecdotally I'd say I can't imagine living with like, one or two people I turn to for emotional support. Would be a nightmare. I know probably 20 or 30 people I could turn to if I needed something, even just to vent.

I wouldn't even necessarily say I'm that close with most of them. It's sort of just... table stakes?

[sershe]

I'm interested in what it is like. I have and always had 0 and really don't feel like I need to talk about my problems with anyone. Never discussed them with my parents even though we have a loving relationship with my mom, and I talk to my spouse but it feels forced being asked about my "feelings" even though again we have a very loving and trusting relationship. When I do have stress/etc. talking about it doesn't really do anything for me. I went to a therapist for the first time recently, just because I have a free benefit at work and everybody's doing it, and by the middle of the 2nd session it felt like there's just nothing to talk about so I probably won't be continuing.

Ok, I think at some point I might have been mildly helpful to one friend who had a crisis by just sorta being there, I can see that, but that was literally a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence so far.

What are 20 people for, like how does it work?

[sosuke]

Imagine three other possibilities:

You have a dozen people who would give you emotional support but you don't ask for any because you aren't sure you could give emotional support in return.

You have a dozen people you think might give you emotional support but you don't want to burden them with your problems.

You have a dozen people that would give you emotional support, maybe once, but you are too afraid to burn the single emotional support coupon until its more important.

[em-bee]

i have one friend that i can trust to be able to talk to with challenges in my life and especially with challenges in my relationship. i know that because he has been open and sharing many of his personal challenges for by now decades with a group of friends that i am privileged to have been invited to.

for everyone else it is pretty much like you describe. i have probably over time met people from each of those categories. and some of them may actually have turned into real friends that i could trust like this one friend above. but moving around meant that we didn't keep in touch. (and it's worth mentioning that almost none of them are from my home, so without moving around i would not have even met them)

[popularonion]

> You have a dozen people that would give you emotional support, maybe once, but you are too afraid to burn the single emotional support coupon until its more important.

This is real. I went through an emotional crisis last year and reached out to a few friends and family for support. My choice to do that has left those relationships more distant, if not permanently damaged.

[iterance]

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just don't worry about it that much these days. What you're describing - the fear of overburdening or burning bridges, the uncertainty about what I can give back - I dunno. I had that, at one point, too. A LONG time ago. Middle school, high school maybe. But many years of being shown I can count on the people around me, and that I'm better at giving support in kind than I think, has made it less of a serious worry.

Of course there are limits, and they have to be respected. "Do not discuss rope in the house of a hanged man." But that's why there's so much breadth. If I can't talk about it with my partner, or my close friends are involved, I can almost always find someone willing to hear me out. Someone it's appropriate to go to support for.

[jasoneckert]

And with such a small sample size, the variance will be high.

For example, I estimate that my own emotional support network quadrupled from about 1-2 before the age of 30 to 5-8 after the age of 40.