[nostromo]

It's funny how every westerner visits Japan and comes home thinking we can "solve crime" or "solve homelessness" or "have clean subway stations."

Japan's culture is why those things are the way they are. It's not due to funding. It's because people raise their children differently than we do in the west. The family's obligations are also greater.

And, yes, there are homeless people in Japan. But they typically are invisible by choice because of their cultural norms around discretion.

[PaulHoule]

Homelessness in Japan and the invisibility thereof is a theme in this game

https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/1235140/

I can't help but think that homelessness in downtown San Francisco is a spectacle.

For one thing, there has been a decision to concentrate people there, which is why people think homelessness is worse in SF than LA, whereas I understand there are more homeless per capita in LA. If you tried to "live outside" in a residential area I think the authorities would deal with you as harshly they would deal with anyone who tried to build more housing.

The messages are: (1) you'd better not stand up to your jackass boss because this could be you, (2) you'd better not ask politicians for a more generous welfare state (especially in the bluest state in America) because we'll never give it to you.

[nojvek]

We can change our culture as well. American culture is dynamic.

The major issue with US even in blue cities is how apathetic they are to build new infrastructure (homes, roads, hospitals, schools) e.t.c

At the end of the day demand-supply dynamics dictate the price.

Finland (pop 5.5M) Norway (pop 5.5M) Sweden (pop 10M)

I look at WA state with a similar population 7M , and higher GDP from tech boom at ~$700B

Seattle & Bellevue should have solved homelessness, but that is not the case. Millions are spent on homeless but little towards long term solving of the solution.

There is a lot of money to be made by many problems not being solved.

[peab]

Even if it's cultural, it can be fixed. Culture can change and can be changed by choice

[nostromo]

I hope you’re right.

It’s very difficult to address culture in the US without being accused of victim blaming or bias.

But the uncomfortable truth is that some cultural practices simply do produce better neighbors and coworkers and compatriots than do others.

[carlosjobim]

What if culture springs from genetic inheritance? How do you change that?

[Aachen]

Are you wondering whether some humans are better than others?! Eh, I don't have the research to know that's not the case, but this seems like an extraordinary hypothesis

[goodpoint]

Huh?!

[TypingOutBugs]

Cultural evolution in genetics is a current topic of research

For example:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain...

[thfuran]

Culture changes, but it's very hard to deliberately effect specific changes.

[yencabulator]

You know how everyone talks about the Finnish education system? That system was completely planned, designed, and transitioned into in the semi-recent past.

[mmooss]

Not really. People deliberately persuade the public of things all the time. Some persuade them of absolutely false, awful things with regularity.

[thfuran]

When you say "things", I assume you don't mean "to change deeply held values and cultural traditions".

[fragmede]

Like eating meat? We've been doing that for millenia, yet somehow there's grass roots vegetarian and vegan movements all over the place.

[mmooss]

Sure, like women getting educated, working, and having equal rights? Universal literacy and education? Instant global telecommunications? Democracy? ... I think it can be done!

[thfuran]

>Sure, like women getting educated, working, and having equal rights?

That only took a few thousand years and still isn't really there yet.

[dyauspitr]

It’s definitely cultural. I’ve been to every major city in the US and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a homeless Indian. Some groups have broken familial cultures that does not churn out good citizens. Did the US in the past play a major role in breaking down those groups and surrounding them with abject poverty that makes it hard to escape from? Absolutely.

[brendoelfrendo]

> I’ve been to every major city in the US and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a homeless Indian.

1) I have.

2) There are plenty of homeless or impoverished people in India, they just don't come to the US. Immigrants need a visa or permanent residency, and that usually comes with a requirement to maintain a job or have some level of financial security. Later generation Indian-Americans are, hopefully, kept out of poverty by the work their parents and families put in to establish a foothold in the US. But none of this is guaranteed; homelessness can happen to just about anyone if they have the right run of bad luck, and one's culture is only a small part of that equation.

[PaulHoule]

Mental illness is a major factor that makes it hard to help people. A majority of homeless people don't have mental illness, but a large fraction do, but those are the hardest to help.

I have a friend right now who is in a precarious housing situation who has schizophrenia but does not have a DX and has no insight into her condition. If my wife tries to set a time to pick her up and take her out to our farm, odds are 1/10 that she will really be there, will really get in the car, will not get out of the car for some hare-brained reason or otherwise not make it out. You've got to have the patience of a saint to do anything for her.

If she had some insight into her condition she could go to DSS and get TANF and then get on disability and have stable housing but she doesn't. No matter how I try to bring up the issue that she does have a condition she just "unhears" it.

Indians and other people from traditional cultures have stronger "family values" and won't wash their hands of intractable relatives the way people who grew up in the US monoculture will. (Or if they do it, they'll do it in a final way)

[dragonwriter]

> It’s definitely cultural. I’ve been to every major city in the US and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a homeless Indian.

Why might it be rare to see a homeless member of a group whose members make up less than 2% of the population in the US to start with and are largely recent immigrants (15% immigrating within the last 5 years!), often under work-based visa programs targeting highly-skilled workers that are well paid?

Could it be cultural superiority of the cultures from which they are drawn? Could it be some other thing that makes them rare among the US homeless?

Hard to tell, I'm sure.

[mmooss]

India is overwhelmed with poverty far beyond anything I've seen in the US.

The people of India started from even worse poverty and have generally made progress (especially since recently-deceased PM Singh). I'm not criticizing. But holding forth India's culture [1] as a model of preventing homelessness is pretty incredible.

[1] India may have the largest, most diverse collection of 'cultures' within one national border in the world, so which one are we talking about?

[elevatedastalt]

OP is referring to a homeless Indian in the US, not in India.

[dinkumthinkum]

Do they have a vastly different culture?

[anon291]

No... homeless people in India behave nothing like homeless in America. Their situation is easily fixed with money.

[dyauspitr]

I’m talking about Indian homeless people in the US.

[mmooss]

You said the claimed lack of Indian homeless in the US was a consequence of culture. Indians in India presumably have the same culture, and lots of homeless.

[nineplay]

Have you ever seen a homeless Indian in India? I would assume not, since evidently Indians have intact familial cultures that churn out good citizens.

[anon291]

The 'homeless' in India live in slums. They have relatively stable housing, even if it's a hovel. They do not behave like American homeless. America's homeless problem has little to do with money or accessibility of housing.

[dyauspitr]

Yes I have seen plenty of homeless people in India.

[mrkstu]

Yep, I'm sure there are plenty of 2nd/3rd generation homeless ethnic Indians in the US. Someone with the will and drive to cross 1/2 the globe and get through the visa gauntlet is highly unlikely to end up homeless due to addiction or mental health, since those have likely been weeded out in the process, but the same mentalities that entrap many American's will likely fall on their descendants.

[asdf6969]

Canada is full of homeless Indians. There’s probably a few hundred thousand if you also count people with inadequate housing like students that share bedrooms in 10 person houses

[dinkumthinkum]

You say its cultural ... ok ... then you say you have never seen "a homeless Indian" ... ok ... Does Indian culture exist in India and is there virtually no homelessness in India?

[anon291]

I mean... even within India, the poor act nothing like they do here. I've been to India several times and witnessed abject poverty (getting better now supposedly). But the poor people in india still go home to their families (they had families!), have dinner together, and are deeply invested in educating their children to set themselves up for success.

I'm shocked when politicians in America blame our homelessness problem on poverty. Poor people do not behave this way. This is a breakdown in culture.

It's weird growing up in the 90s as an American and visiting India and thinking that America was better than that because we are so rich and no one is that poor, but 30 years later, it no longer seems that way. While India is still very poor, I think even the homeless there might have a more stable life than what I physically see on the streets of west coast America. I mean.. it may be a slum, but at least they have a permanent house, their kids are in school, etc.

Meanwhile, in Portland, I see human feces on many streets, and the homeless are drugged out zombies (Portland has enough beds for all homeless but no ability to force usage of shelter beds, and few homeless person accepts the offer).

I hate to say it, but maybe just allowing a 'proper' slum would be a better option.

[m2024]

That's because it's very affluent Indians who have been granted citizenship historically.

Homelessness goes down in places where housing is cheap and also in places where the government intervenes sensibly.