[treme]

The man may exaggerate pace of progress but he has more than proved him self with TESLA, SpaceX, Neuralink. that's 3 bleeding edge companies in 3 different industries.

p.s) For those misinformed about state of Neuralink. Currently in beta with quadriplegic patients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVcMpjIY52Q

[richardw]

Then he can claim those things, but not what he hasn’t done yet. He’s very capable and I’m happy to defend his contribution, but his pronouncements on “full self driving” have been untruthful. It is not full self driving. It was not autopilot. If the new version is, the world should be thrilled. It’s probably not.

[threeseed]

And he's also proven himself with X, Boring, SolarCity, America PAC, PayPal etc.

[Ekaros]

Not to forget his most brilliant brain child of hyper loop. Which has already revolutionized transport and replaced cars, trains, planes and ships... Oh wait...

[tim333]

Everyone has better and worse projects.

[Satam]

What successful projects have you birthed and how do they compare?

[dgrin91]

Paypal did very well, no? Solar City wasn't a homerun like spacex, but I wouldn't call it a failure. America PAC is not something I agree with, but again, not clear what your point about it is?

We can agree that he is an asshole and also acknowledge the fact that he has a statistically significant success rate for big engineering tasks.

[threeseed]

a) He was fired from PayPal for his poor management and erratic behaviour.

b) SolarCity has been unquestionably a failure.

c) America PAC which handles most of the field operations for the Trump campaign has been in the news for how poorly it has been managed.

[igornadj]

I never understood the criticism for late delivery from the tech community. We of all people should know how difficult estimating can be. I can cut Musky some slack on this one.

[throw0101d]

> We of all people should know how difficult estimating can be.

Then (a) perhaps keep your mouth shut until you can deliver it, and (b) don't take people's money for something that you say is "only X years away" when it's actually X+3/4/5.

[arcticbull]

He has promised FSD is one year away each year since 2015. We're coming up on the 10th anniversary of "one year away."

[Satam]

So you're saying it's better to be like most people: to promise nothing and then deliver exactly that, perfectly on time.

[throw0101d]

> So you're saying it's better to be like most people: to promise nothing and then deliver exactly that, perfectly on time.

When people can buy your product, tell them that they can buy it.

If you don't have a product that people can buy, keep your mouth shut.

[stackghost]

He doesn't actually do any of the work in developing those technologies. He didn't even found Tesla. He's just the front man with enough money to buy titles like "chief engineer" and "founder".

A complete grifter.

[treme]

you don't know anything about how business works if you can't appreciate how Elon managed to turn Tesla at concept car stage to current mass manufacturing capacities and being more valuable than next 7 car companies combined.

the man got into Stanford for Physics, and there are more than enough anecdotes from his biography done by Walter Isaacson that confirm his technical prowess.

[John23832]

> you don't know anything about how business works if you can't appreciate how Elon managed to turn Tesla at concept car stage to current mass manufacturing capacities and being more valuable than next 7 car companies combined.

The elephant in the room is that this was all done during ZIRP. There was an incredible amount of money sloshing around, and due to Elon's great ability to market, it ended up at Tesla.

> the man got into Stanford for Physics, and there are more than enough anecdotes from his biography done by Walter Isaacson that confirm his technical prowess.

This is Elon sympathetic. Where someone got into school has nothing to do with their business acumen. There are many people who actually went to Stanford for Physics with no business acumen. There also plenty of people who didn't go to school at all who have built great companies.

There are also many critiques of the accuracy of the Walter Isaacson biography. A definitive tome, it is not.

[kibwen]

> if you can't appreciate how Elon managed to turn Tesla at concept car stage to current mass manufacturing capacities and being more valuable than next 7 car companies combined

So government bailouts followed by cultivating a breathless cult who throw money at making your stock the most overvalued asset in history?

[treme]

Tesla took government loans and paid them all back with interest. there was never any bailout but I can tell you just hate the man regardless of facts.

Feel free to put your money where your mouth is by shorting TESLA if you feel like it's so overvalued. and get crushed like everyone that did just that along the way.

[kibwen]

> Feel free to put your money where your mouth is by shorting TESLA if you feel like it's so overvalued

As a smart man once said: "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent".

[treme]

As a smart man once said: 'A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.'

https://www.quora.com/Was-Tesla-bailed-out-by-the-US-governm...

No, Tesla did not receive any funds under the 2009 auto industry bailout.[1] The $80.7 billion went to Chrysler and GM.

Tesla did receive a government loan of $465 million under the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program, a program signed into law by Bush in 2008. Tesla subsequently repaid that loan.

[arcticbull]

> Tesla took government loans and paid them all back with interest. there was never any bailout but I can tell you just hate the man regardless of facts.

Many people don't know this but the vast majority of the money that was spent in 2008 was actually given out as loans, and those loans have been repaid with interest, netting the Treasury over $100B in profit, with billions more in quarterly dividends continuing to this day from Fannie and Freddie.

Do you think the 2008 TARP package was "not a bailout" also, because it was repaid with interest?

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Or would you define it more by business outlook if they hadn’t received the funds in the first place?

[jjav]

> Feel free to put your money where your mouth is by shorting TESLA if you feel like it's so overvalued. and get crushed like everyone that did just that along the way.

Selling put options on TSLA has been one of my more profitable plays for a long while, so maybe not.

[arcticbull]

Selling puts is a long position :)

[acchow]

When you get to higher level, you’re not doing work but instead you are guiding work and making decisions.

Whenever you don't know which way to go, you consult someone more senior. Those people do the same with their seniors. And so on.

There are many stories from people who have worked with Elon scattered across books and interviews. He makes wild decisions, tells people to do it, and somehow the sum of these wild ideas works out.

Remember, the idea of landing a reusable rocket was abandoned long ago by many nations because it was deemed impossible or financially infeasible. Yet here we are with SpaceX dropping LOE launch prices per kg by 90-98%.

You can call Elon many things, but a grifter he is not.

[dietr1ch]

> Remember, the idea of landing a reusable rocket was abandoned long ago by many nations because it was deemed impossible or financially infeasible. Yet here we are with SpaceX dropping LOE launch prices per kg by 90-98%.

It's almost like revisiting the wildest ideas turns into feasible ones thanks to steady progress all around (science, manufacturing, better pricing).

I guess what's key is being lucky to re-attempt something at the right time. Just look at how long things from the mother of all demos took to become successful products, hell, we are finally getting the hang of collaborative editing and video conferencing was awful still 40yrs after in 2008.

[bilvar]

You forgot all the ridicule endured for all the previous failed attempts and people how "stupid" he is for not listening to his engineers that the chopstick landing is not feasible.

[TheAlchemist]

That's bullshit.

He is a grifter, and I believe he's going to prison for fraud soon.

But it's also true that he's / was incredible at attracting top talent, pushing seemingly impossible projects and delivering.

[tim333]

Prison for fraud? What for?